Wild Beer and Sanitation

[killsurfcity]

I'm brewing mostly sour beers at this point, and I still go through a rigorous cleaning and sanitation process as I brew each beer. My question is, is there anything besides brett, lacto, pedio, that you really need sanitation for? Are there any microbes besides enterobacter that could ruin your beer?
Theoretically couldn't you just clean everything well (skip sanitation) and be fine it you were ok with it all being funky?
I mean, I also do barley-wines, but i don't even care if they get a bit infected, it gives them an interesting twist.

 

[winnph]

Isn't enterobacter bad enough? Some of those can taste pretty nasty. Other than that, mold is really the only thing I'd be concerned about -- for health reasons, you don't want to let mold take hold.

 

[killsurfcity]

but enterobacter can't survive in alcohol, correct?

 

[winnph]

Well no, but depending on how long it takes for your yeast to produce enough alcohol to inhibit its growth, I imagine it could produce some lasting nasty flavors and aromas. You know, rotting vomit-y garbage and whatnot. If you're pitching a healthy amount of yeast, that won't be a concern. If you're relying on spontaneous fermentation or something where cell counts are really low, I imagine the enterobacteria could produce some significant flavor/aroma byproducts before the yeast takes over.

 

[Beerrific]

It is the low pH as well as the alcohol that inhibits the nasties that could be harmful.

There are 2 main reasons why you SHOULD ALWAYS sanitize even if you are brewing sour eers:
1. Acetobactor. Unless you want malt vinegar.
2. Process control. Simply not sanitizing will give you no control over your process. Even if i was try to spontaneously ferment a beer, I would sanitize the container to assure that the bugs in there are from the air alone. For example, grain dust is covered in lacto and if you are handling or crushing grain it is everywhere and probably on you. If you don't kill off this lacto population you could end up with a beer intensely lactic and blowing out the other bugs.

 

[killsurfcity]

#1, you can control through oxygen control. i mean, acetobacter is included in small amounts even in most commercial yeast packs, and it's certainly present in the air. correct?
#2, i could see the lacto becoming a problem, sure.

 

[Beerrific]

#1, you can control through oxygen control. i mean, acetobacter is included in small amounts even in most commercial yeast packs, and it's certainly present in the air. correct?

Yeah, of course it is in the air. That is why you sanitize your stuff though.

And yes, acetobactor needs oxygen to convert the alcohol to but still I would rather sanitize that have to be paranoid about keeping oxygen out. Then again some acetic character is nice in some beers.

 

[killsurfcity]

in my experience, acetic character comes from, time, storage medium, headspace, etc. if you are using brett, it will come regardless of how you sanitize, if it has desirable conditions.

i think lacto and pedio would be the hardest to control if you didn't sanitize properly. (although they wouldn't produce exactly the same flavor or even presence across different styles of beer)