Why LME not DME

[sasabs]

I have brewed several batches using kits. I am now ready to do extract brewing from recipes. They usually call for LME as the main malt ingredient.

Can I use DME instead? Is there an advantage of one over the other?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

LME is slightly easier to mix into the water.

DME stores better.

 

[Revvy]

After the first couple of kits with lme, I stopped using it and made all my recipes with DME instead.

 

[unionrdr]

I use both to get the different characteristics of each. I like the munton's plain DME's to mix with LME's to play around with color,flavor combinations,that sort of thing.
But using one or the other is fine. Your only limit is your imagination in using them.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

With DME you get the "in bag clumping" from the steam of the boil, with LME it can be a pain to get out of the jug.

DME does not sour, so it wins on points with me.

 

[beergolf]

I mostly use DME but sometimes use both in the same batch. DME is harder to mix in so sometimes if I am doing a late addition I just use LME for the late addition.

 

[CrookedTail]

You can achieve lighter colored beer with DME.

 

[unionrdr]

I just keep stiring the DME till it dissolves. Wanna get it mixed thoroughly anyway,before I add the LME. It seems to take a bit more stiring. I'm thinking of getting a paddle style stirrer to make it a lil easier. Interestingly,I got a darker color by adding plain extra light DME to a light colored LME. But it's cool,I was going for a bit of amber color anyway.

 

[nsean]

Well I think I am the only one with bad experiences with DME. The only supplier I can get it from admits that it is less fermentable, and is darker. Avoid United Canadian Malt DME.

 

[unionrdr]

I use Munton's DME's. I'm liking the aromas/flavors I get from them. Not to mention colors.

 

[CrookedTail]

Well I think I am the only one with bad experiences with DME. The only supplier I can get it from admits that it is less fermentable, and is darker. Avoid United Canadian Malt DME.

I use Briess DME. Never had a problem with it.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I use a big whisk to mix the dme in. No problem.

LME is the only thing I have ever had stick to the bottom and burn.

 

[Revvy]

I once did an experiment and put the entire 8 pounds of dme for a recipe in at once, and managed to get it all dissolved smoothly. It took a lot of elbow grease, but it will all dissolve. I just used a spoon, but things like whisks and stuff will make it easier. But it just takes patience.

 

[Weizenwerks]

I use a big whisk to mix the dme in. No problem.

Another thing is to premix the DME in water prior to adding to the boil, but keep track of how much water is added to it and count that towards your total volume of water. When added to the boil it mixes faster.

LME is the only thing I have ever had stick to the bottom and burn.

Whenever adding LME, take it off heat and stir it up well until you can scrape the bottom of the kettle with no LME on the spoon. Put it back on the burner and return to boil. Do not count the time off heat as part of the boil. Boil means boil. Any time I make an addition, whether it is extract or hops, I do it off heat. This nearly eliminates boil over and scorching of the extract.

 

[duckmanco]

LME, while much harder to get out of its container, and more difficult to store properly, is much much cheaper for me to brew with compared to DME.

My local shop carries bulk LME on nitrogen and the prices (even considering you need less DME per recipe than LME) are much better. At this point, I'll save some money and deal with sticky LME.

 

[chicagobrew]

The conventional wisdom is that LME is preferable, but it doesn't last as long on the shelf. If your homebrew store doesn't turn over their inventory very quickly I would go with the DME. If they sell a lot of LME I would go with it. In reality, I have found very little difference and will use either although I usually go with LME because it's a bit cheaper.

To get the LME out of the can I just rinse it in the boil kettle and let the hot wort dissolve the LME right out of the can. Sanitation isn't important as it's all going to get boiled. Also, soak the cans in hot water before opening. It will make the LME less viscous and easier to pour.

 

[Revvy]

The conventional wisdom is that LME is preferable,

I've never heard this at all. In fact I would tend to believe that people consider DME more preferable than Lme. It stores easier, it isn't as carmalized as lme, isn't as prone to to pick up metallic tastes by being stored in cans (if it is to begin with) won't tend to oxydize if it isn't fresh, and isn't as darker as it's dry component. The only complaint folks tend to have is it's clumping, but that just takes patience to work through.

 

[chicagobrew]

Rev,

I say that LME is preferred because it is less processed and, therefore, should result in a better end product. Brewing Classic Styles pg. 32 says "DME is identical to LME except for the additional dehydration to about 2 percent moisture." Further, I would argue that LME should be less caramelized than DME because it does not undergo the final dehydration step. LME does darken with age, however, so old LME could be darker.

I would choose DME when good quality, fresh LME is not available or when I want some to keep in storage at home.

 

[MrAverage]

DME is easier to use in less than full can amounts and storage of the left overs is easier (unless you can get your LME in resealable bulk containers)

Speaking of storage - I've been storing an opened packageof DME in double ziplock bags in my freezer for about 5 months and have had no problems with clumping. The freezer is much less humid than your average room. Lowere humidity = less clumping... At least that's my theory. Anyone else try this?

 

[Homercidal]

Rev,

I say that LME is preferred because it is less processed and, therefore, should result in a better end product. Brewing Classic Styles pg. 32 says "DME is identical to LME except for the additional dehydration to about 2 percent moisture." Further, I would argue that LME should be less caramelized than DME because it does not undergo the final dehydration step. LME does darken with age, however, so old LME could be darker.

I would choose DME when good quality, fresh LME is not available or when I want some to keep in storage at home.

I woudl like to dispute this. I don't think that DME is process the same as LME up to the point of spray drying. I think there is less caramelization in DME because it's not condenssed before the drying process. I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that it remains lighter in color because it ISN'T as processed, but goes straight to the spray drying step.

 

[unionrdr]

Oh,it gets better. Not all DME's are "spray dried",some are belt dried. Although the later may be the old way of doing it. I say they're both great,so let's have fun mixing & matching to make some great beers!!
There are so many combinations of extra light,light,amber,dark. Breisse,Munich,Australian,English,American...you get the idea. Different countries,different colors & aroma/flavor profiles that are popular in that country. Even more fun to be had! This is the way I look at the whole thing. I hope that gives a little insight to this madness.:rockin:

 

[chicagobrew]

I agree with Union. They both make some damn fine beer and you can use them interchangeably (adjusting for amount, of course).

For education's sake, though, I would be interested to know how they're made. Anyone know the real and whole story?

 

[terrapinj]

DME is much easier to split up as well

my LHBS sells 6lb and 3lb jars of LME - huge PITA trying to use it in quantities other than that

 

[unionrdr]

Well,I know from Cooper's Tech Adviser that they whirlpool The malt they're going to can up somehow to get it down to 20% water. Trying to remember about the DME. I keep thinking I saw a vid somewhere that someone posted showing the malt sprayed into very hot air under pressure. Belt dried kinda sounds self explanatory.?

 

[Rev2010]

With DME you get the "in bag clumping" from the steam of the boil,

I don't get that.... because I pour the DME into a bowl first then sprinkle it into my wort using the bowl.


Rev.

 

[iswenson]

LME is cheaper. If both are fresh they are the same. LME wins

 

[VAShooter]

What about extract twang? Some say it doesn’t exist, others swear by it. I've only brewed 5 batches and tasted 1 of those batches so far, so I'm no expert by any means. But, I've read that the 'twang' comes from LME vs DME.

I started buying DME after reading about the twang phenomenon.

Don’t shoot the messenger...just passing along what I've read from debate on HBT!

 

[Weizenwerks]

Myth.

 

[terrapinj]

What about extract twang? Some say it doesn’t exist, others swear by it. I've only brewed 5 batches and tasted 1 of those batches so far, so I'm no expert by any means. But, I've read that the 'twang' comes from LME vs DME.

I started buying DME after reading about the twang phenomenon.

Don’t shoot the messenger...just passing along what I've read from debate on HBT!

i think that it was old canned LME that was the culprit - no reason to fear LME because of the twang unless you are getting an old dusty can

 

[Revvy]

Myth.

i think that it was old canned LME that was the culprit - no reason to fear LME because of the twang unless you are getting an old dusty can

Yep. In fact most cases of "extract twang" that people claim now are usually blaming something that when we get to the heart of the matter tends to be just another case of green beer- the impatient new brewer tasting the beer too soon and panicking (I've heard everything including tannins, and autolysis, and even folks getting the various off flavor definitions mixed up in their new brewer's "hypochondria".)

Most of the time these days you are getting pretty fresh ingredients, even in metal can kits like cooper's and brewer's best kits, most retailers have a higher turnover than in the old days of Premier malt extract sitting on grocery stores shelves gathering dust, and picking up a metallic taste.

A lot of those things, like autolysys fears, extract twang and easily dying yeast, came from Papazian and the brewing culture of the pre-prohibition era of the 70's. And then it just get repeated over and over, but this is 40 years later, and everything's better, and this hobby is so popular that turnover is higher in most stores.....

Heck, even cans are coated and lined these days so as to NOT impart metallic flavor into whatever is being put in them.

 

[mixedbrewer]

LME might seem less expensive, but it is 20% water. DME is 99-100% malt. A 3.3 lb can of LME is really 2.64 lbs of malt.

 

[Weizenwerks]

And Breiss LME cans are plastic. If I use extract, it's Breiss and Breiss only.

 

[Weizenwerks]

DME is 99-100% malt.

No, not that high.

 

[terrapinj]

No, not that high.

briess golden light LME is 79% solids; golden light DME is 97% solids

both have 75% fermentability

also the FAN (free amino nitrogen) content is higher with the DME (4200 v 3500 for LME) which I have read can help avoid stuck fermentations around the 1.020 mark

 

[Homercidal]

Oh,it gets better. Not all DME's are "spray dried",some are belt dried. Although the later may be the old way of doing it. I say they're both great,so let's have fun mixing & matching to make some great beers!!
There are so many combinations of extra light,light,amber,dark. Breisse,Munich,Australian,English,American...you get the idea. Different countries,different colors & aroma/flavor profiles that are popular in that country. Even more fun to be had! This is the way I look at the whole thing. I hope that gives a little insight to this madness.:rockin:

I've never heard of belt dried. I have heard of DME called Spray Malt by some older people. DME is the new norm for the stuff.

And I think it's common knowledge that DME is lighter in color than LME due to the processing. Although I have just recently heard that wheat DME is darker then Wheat LME. I'd be curious to know why that is, or if it's true.

The only reason I choose DME is because I brew AG and can store a bag of DME for any length of time and pull it out whenever I need it and use how much I need and put the rest back. It's always fresh because the shelf life is way longer than LME.

I think I saw a video or web page from one of the big name maltsters explaining how the different extracts were made.

 

[mixedbrewer]

(deleted) terrapinj already covered my reply.

 

[Weizenwerks]

briess golden light LME is 79% solids; golden light DME is 97% solids

both have 75% fermentability

97% isn't "99-100%" as stated previously, is it?

 

[terrapinj]

DME is also clutch to have on hand for starters

 

[terrapinj]

97% isn't "99-100%" as stated previously, is it?

depends on what margin of error you find acceptable

 

[unionrdr]

Interesting that the DME is lighter,I added plain extra light DME to a lme that was for a straw gold beer. It is now amber. Good color,great flavor,so far though.