Why does sugar = clear beer?

[maltMonkey]

I bottle all my beers and constantly fight to get some decent clarity in them. I've made a few English beers lately that ive made many times before and have always turned out a bit cloudy, but subbed about 5% of the pale malt for sugar, and these beers are remarkably clear from the primary on.

Now that i think about it, every beer I've made that had sugar in it (from 3% - 12%) has been very clear.

Why does sugar = clear beer?

 

[llazy_llama]

It might be that the sugars in malt extract are much more complex than that of... well, sugar. It seems like the yeast can eat the sugar faster than they can eat the malt, so they likely drop out of the beer much quicker.

Try letting your bottled beer condition for a few extra weeks, or even a month or two. My guess is you'll get beer that's just as clear, and that probably tastes better.

 

[Revvy]

It doesn't...It has nothiing to do with beer clarity..sugar boosts the ABv, and thins or dries the beer out...But it has nothing to do with whether or not a beer is clear or not..

There's probably other variables to the recipes and what you are brewing that would contribute more to a beer's clarity, than whether or not you added any sugar...

 

[llazy_llama]

Fair enough. Rereading the OP's post, I really doubt subbing 5% DME or LME with sugar would make any real difference anyway. That's not a large amount at all. maltMonkey, care to post your recipies and your procedures? Maybe people will be more able to help if they know more about your step-by-step process.

 

[BierMuncher]

The addition of simple sugars can play a role in earlier clarity. Beer with a higher concentration of simple sugars have two things going for it.

1) Like Revvy said, simple sugars ferment out more completely leaving a dryer and thinner beer. The thinner a beer, the more readily protein solids can move through the chill haze phase and drop out.

2) Because there is a higher proportion of simple sugars, there is conversely, a lower proportion of malt derivative sugars which are laden with those protein solids and other haze contributing components.

This is why most big beers like IPA's take much longer to clear up than say a 3.5% cream ale with corn and rice adjuncts.

 

[Revvy]

The addition of simple sugars can play a role in earlier clarity. Beer with a higher concentration of simple sugars have two things going for it.



This is why most big beers like IPA's take much longer to clear up than say a 3.5% cream ale with corn and rice adjuncts.

Yeah,,,I was just thinking of recipes with adjuncts, like a couple of your that I love...they APPEAR clearer and crisper..it's not necessarily the case that they really are...but since they are light in color (and also body in the case of some) they may appear clearer than let's say an imperial stout...it may be just as clear....BUT because it is opaque in color...it may not appear to be...

Another thing that occured to me, and it goes back to what I said earlier...it may be more about the process than the sugar...the recipe you added sugar too, may ALSO have you do something else, like lager it, cold crash it, rack it to secondary..and THAT may truly be what causes it to seem more clear..(which then is a case of my favorite saying. "Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc- Google it. )

Yeast also comes into play, don't forget, you could be using a less flocculant yeat in that recipe.

It would be nice to see, Like LLama said, what recipes you are referring to ...if you are, for example brewing a Cooper's Sparkling Ale, with a pound of sugar in it..since it is a "sparkling ale" it will of course be. by nature more "Clear" than a Hefe...or even a Belgian Strong Dark Ale.

 

[maltMonkey]

The addition of simple sugars can play a role in earlier clarity. Beer with a higher concentration of simple sugars have two things going for it.

1) Like Revvy said, simple sugars ferment out more completely leaving a dryer and thinner beer. The thinner a beer, the more readily protein solids can move through the chill haze phase and drop out.

2) Because there is a higher proportion of simple sugars, there is conversely, a lower proportion of malt derivative sugars which are laden with those protein solids and other haze contributing components.

This is why most big beers like IPA's take much longer to clear up than say a 3.5% cream ale with corn and rice adjuncts.

Thanks BierMuncher -- very helpful information there.

I finally just put the correlation together tonight after pulling an early bottle (4 weeks in) to see how flavors were progressing. This is an ESB recipe I have made over 10 batches of, with basically the same recipe each time. I noticed how clear it was and went through my notes and saw I'd subbed 5% brown sugar for some pale malt after reading some stuff in "Designing Great Beers" about how a lot of English breweries use a bit of sugar in their recipes.

I've also done "sugar experiments" with this same recipe where I brewed a 7.5 gallon batch that was 6 points lower than normal and split it into 5 1.5 gallon batches each with a different sugar addition (molasses, brown sugar, table sugar, candi sugar, and maple syrup). Each of these turned out very clear also, but again I didn't put two and two together until tonight.

I've also noticed that every Belgian beer I make with candi sugar is very clear.

I had just never read anything that relates sugar to clarity, but it kept showing itself in practice.

 

[Revvy]

I'd be more apt to believe that THE is the reason the beer is clear..

I finally just put the correlation together tonight after pulling an early bottle (4 weeks in) to see how flavors were progressing. This is an ESB recipe I have made over 10 batches of, with basically the same recipe each time.

You have an ESB (lower grav) conditioned for a month...that beer will be cleared whether or not you added sugar or not...

I had just never read anything that relates sugar to clarity, but it kept showing itself in practice.

Who knows you may be the first person to actually notice it if it is true......That's why you, or any of us haven't stumbled upon anything about it...but I'm betting it's still another factor..though it would be interesting to see more info..or more experiences to back you up on this theory.

 

[maltMonkey]

Hey Revvy,

This recipe is one I've made many times - same yeast (Wyeast #1968), same hops, same everything....I keep pretty extensive notes about my recipe and process each time, and so far the only difference I've found is the sugar swap. The recipe produces a beer at about 12 SRM....

I have tried this recipe after it had been bottled, conditioned, and in the fridge for 3 months and it was still hazy, but the batches I've made with sugars have been very clear bottled for 3-4 weeks, and were even crystal clear coming out of the primary.

I'm going to figure out a good way to do an experiment where I do a split batch with the same fermentation temps, same yeast slurry, same wort from the kettle, basically everything the same but add about 3-4% sugar and report back in a month or two

 

[Revvy]

Hey Revvy,

This recipe is one I've made many times - same yeast (Wyeast #1968), same hops, same everything....I keep pretty extensive notes about my recipe and process each time, and so far the only difference I've found is the sugar swap. The recipe produces a beer at about 12 SRM....

I have tried this recipe after it had been bottled, conditioned, and in the fridge for 3 months and it was still hazy, but the batches I've made with sugars have been very clear bottled for 3-4 weeks, and were even crystal clear coming out of the primary.

I'm going to figure out a good way to do an experiment where I do a split batch with the same fermentation temps, same yeast slurry, same wort from the kettle, basically everything the same but add about 3-4% sugar and report back in a month or two

Well you've got me curious...I have a Belgian Strong Dark that has 3 pounds of sugar in...I'm curious now to see what happens..but since it's a dark I prolly wont notice a diff in mine....

As long as you keep the other variables consistent it will be an interesting experiment..and one that we will want to see pics of...

Oh..while you are at it...include making your own invert sugar...maybe different boil length of candi syrup (I would be interested in seeing if the darker the color of the candi syrup affects the clarity.)

Keep us posted.

 

[BierMuncher]

...but since it's a dark I prolly wont notice a diff in mine....

Dark and clear are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

[llazy_llama]

Dark and clear are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Clearly that beer is infected, and should be sent to your local Llama for proper disposal.

Yeah, I know, I just triggered a lot of people's pet peeves with a "disposal," joke, but that brew looks amazing. I want it soooo bad. BM, is the recipe for that posted up here somewhere? The beer I'm drinking now (an IPA) just looks like water after seeing that.

 

[Revvy]

Dark and clear are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Meh..That ain't dark..that's just RED...I pee darker than that after drinking one of my Browns..or my Poor Richard's Ale.

Heck you should see the Schwartzbier I brewed last night with my buddy....I didn't think there was an SRM for jet black....But I's his house recipe...and it is awesome..actually in terms of body..it is one of the crispest and lightest feeling Lagers I have ever tasted.



But you're right...

 

[BierMuncher]

Clearly that beer is infected, and should be sent to your local Llama for proper disposal.

Yeah, I know, I just triggered a lot of people's pet peeves with a "disposal," joke, but that brew looks amazing. I want it soooo bad. BM, is the recipe for that posted up here somewhere? The beer I'm drinking now (an IPA) just looks like water after seeing that.

Believe it or not it was a less than 3% English Mild we brewed last Fall for a swap. The thing was crazy malty and slightly sweet. Very rich and nobody would have guessed it was a light session ale. That is the only beer I will drink while brewing. Satisfies the taste buds, quenches the thirst and doesn't render you incapable of shlepping full carboys around the brew shop.

Here's the recipe/thread.

 

[llazy_llama]

BierMuncher, that sounds like my perfect beer. I love hops, don't get me wrong. I am drinking an IPA as we speak... But so far my favorite store-bought beer is Odell's 90 Shilling Ale. Lovely deep brown color, and so much malt I always think I'm drinking some sort of pancake+syrup+butter concoction. Thanks for the recipe link, when I finally do go AG, that'll be my first batch. I'm still at the extract level now, until I can afford some more equipment.

Revvy, if your pee is that dark, and especially if it smells like Sugar Smacks breakfast cereal, you really need to drink more water! I drink a gallon of water a day, and I haven't had a hangover or even a cold in several years.

 

[Brewsmith]

Was the yeast strain the same between the clear beers and the hazy ones? If you made English beers and used an English strain of yeast, they tend to flocculate better and clear faster. If it's the same yeast in all brews, I don't have a clue.

 

[Jack]

If you made the recipe with the same gravity with only sucrose, rather than malt, I'm guessing that it would be pretty clear (if all other things were the same). If you made the beer with all malt (no sugar additions), I'm guessing this would have the least clarity. If those two assumptions are good, there's probably a continuous gradient of decreasing clarity across that range (though it might be difficult to detect based on increasing color).

Anyway, it sounds like the basis for an experiment!