Why does my LHBS make me feel like a noob?

[Mismost]

When I ask for advice, I listen very carefully to what is said and say thanks. That in no way prevents me from doing things different or opposed to the given advice. I reserve the right right to do it my way.

Sometimes my way doesn't work, sometimes it does. Either way, I then have the knowledge gained from both sources.

Will Rogers once said...Some people learn by watching, some by reading, some by listening....and some of have to pee on the electric fence and find out for ourselves!

What's really important is that we learn....good or bad.

 

[Pyg]

I worry about autolysis as much as I worry about HSA.

I don't know what either of those are!

As far as 3 weeks go, i usually brew on the weekend and leave it in primary for 2-3 weeks depending on my schedule. A few days before bottling I cold crash.
My first few batches were 2 week primary than bottle.
I have not noticed either way accepted the 3 weeks tend to be a little clearer.

 

[rhys333]

Keep in mind many people passing through the LHBS don't know a whole lot about brewing so its not unreasonable for the owner to get stuck in brewsplaining mode. I'm lucky that my LHBS brings in the best of the best from around the world, so I cut them some slack if they explain something I already know.

 

[spunxter]

Mispost

 

[soccerdad]

Strictly amateur analysis ... I like shopping local and will support LHBS when I can, but the owners are often pretentious people who think they just have to know more than anyone else about brewing. Like an audiophile in a stereo shop. I like my LHBS guy a lot ... I get better ideas from listening to you all.

 

[GnenieGone]

From what I gathered here(still have tons to learn).We used to do shorter primarys because that's what the macro breweries do.The shear weight of wort in the mega vessels would crush and kill the yeast after it settled giving off flavors.It has since been debunked in homebrew as our little setups would never crush the yeast.Longer primaries have since been deemed ok....Feel free for anyone to correct me,but Ive read here that is the reason

Last two brews (DIPA and Session IPA), I decided that 8 days fermentation was OK. Well, it is if you like butter flavored beer, Diacetyls. DIPA was dumped, session is drinkable. As other said, I've done from 8 days to 21 days in primary, shorter is more harmful from my experience.

I don't like to open the fermentation vessel to check gravity as some suggest. I'm going back to the norm of 17 days primary. That seems to have always work for me. (From the guy who likes to pee on the electric fence, you know, just to see what happens!)

 

[Pyg]

Strictly amateur analysis ... I like shopping local and will support LHBS when I can, but the owners are often pretentious people who think they just have to know more than anyone else about brewing. Like an audiophile in a stereo shop. I like my LHBS guy a lot ... I get better ideas from listening to you all.

The owner of another nearby LHBS is knowledgable as all get out, but pretentious as heck!
He constantly tells me I am making the process harder by using a vacuum pump instead of a bottlin bucket.
But he has a great palate to figure out why a wine, cider or beer is out of balance.
Anytime I am there I just don't bring up the vacuum pump!

Last two brews (DIPA and Session IPA), I decided that 8 days fermentation was OK. Well, it is if you like butter flavored beer, Diacetyls. DIPA was dumped, session is drinkable. As other said, I've done from 8 days to 21 days in primary, shorter is more harmful from my experience.

I don't like to open the fermentation vessel to check gravity as some suggest. I'm going back to the norm of 17 days primary. That seems to have always work for me. (From the guy who likes to pee on the electric fence, you know, just to see what happens!)

I never check the gravity between pitching and cold crashing. I guess one of the reasons I do 3 weeks is that I give it all the time to clear and finish up.
I know that It is fermenting when I see all the bubbling .
With my wine making patience was always rewarded.

 

[joshesmusica]

I never check the gravity between pitching and cold crashing. I guess one of the reasons I do 3 weeks is that I give it all the time to clear and finish up.
I know that It is fermenting when I see all the bubbling .
With my wine making patience was always rewarded.

I know there are some people out there not checking final gravity, but I just can't think of any good reasons not to. It lets you know you've done things right, along with letting you know how much abv you ended up with.

Also airlock bubbling is never a sign that fermentation is either still going or is finished. You can get more bubbling just from a change in atmospheric pressure.

With some of the things you've commented on here, it sounds more like you should be listening to the advice of your LHBS guys.

 

[Pyg]

I know there are some people out there not checking final gravity, but I just can't think of any good reasons not to. It lets you know you've done things right, along with letting you know how much abv you ended up with.



Also airlock bubbling is never a sign that fermentation is either still going or is finished. You can get more bubbling just from a change in atmospheric pressure.



With some of the things you've commented on here, it sounds more like you should be listening to the advice of your LHBS guys.

I said I never checked the gravity between pitching least and cold crashing however I always check the gravity prior to adding find sugar and bottling

 

[MattyIce]

You can always split a batch and see the results for yourself. If I had more time and money, I would be doing brulosopher style experiments every week!

 

[joshesmusica]

I said I never checked the gravity between pitching least and cold crashing however I always check the gravity prior to adding find sugar and bottling

Haha ok... Your gravity isn't gonna change much during the cold crash. So when you said that, logic says that you never checked gravity. And in fact, there's not much reason to check gravity after cold crashing as compared to before...

 

[gbx]

Called my LHBS to ask some advice about my spiced holiday ale I have brewing. During the conversation my LHBS tells me in passing to leave the beer in primary for 2 weeks and bottle.
I mention I always do 3 weeks, as I have learned from HBT.
The guy gets scientific with me and snotty. Throwing out big words about how after 2 weeks yeast gets weird and starts leaving off flavors.
I tell him I do 3 weeks and have not had an issue.
I got a "whatever it's your beer, you called me for advice".
Full disclosure, I value my LHBS advise for flavor profiles and yeast strains and tweeking recipe.
However I have made atleast 6 brews using the 3 week primary, 2 week bottle and have not been disappointed.
I won't even go until the debate about my using a vacuum pump to siphon and bottle instead of a bottling bucket.

So why is it that you folks on HBT preach the longer primary, but both of my 2 different LHBS give different advice.

I find the info I have received on HBT incredibly valuable, so I don't know why my LHBS or so by the book (Brewers best instruction book that is).
Any idea ?

People at home-brew shops get annoyed when internet experts come in and try to overturn decades of conventional wisdom. Yes a lot of home brewing conventional wisdom can be ignored but rarely will you ever go wrong by following it. I've seen it a bunch of times (and I probably was that guy too) and it must get tired fast. I see it really bad when it comes to recipes:
Internet expert: "I need .8oz of hersbruker for my hefeweizen"
LHBS employee: "Its august, the hop selection is pretty weak now. We have mt. hood, it will be fine in a hefeweizen"
Internet expert: "Ok, then I don't want that grain you just measured out, I'll order online because I NEED hersbruker for this recipe"
Don't be that guy. Don't ask questions you already "know" the answer to. If you are at the stage that you ever feel the need to ask the people at the store a process question, you are clearly not an expert.

 

[myerstyson]

They obviously don't want your business.

You know who won't make you feel like a noob? Austin Homebrew. Order from them. They're great.

(I am in now way related nor do I get anything from mentioning them. I simply have had over a year of excellent service from them.)

 

[andy6026]

Anybody that knows anything is well aware that 19 days, 13 hours and 46 minutes is ALWAYS the correct time to ferment any beer under any circumstances, excepting of course, when it's not the correct time.

 

[Pyg]

Anybody that knows anything is well aware that 19 days, 13 hours and 46 minutes is ALWAYS the correct time to ferment any beer under any circumstances, excepting of course, when it's not the correct time.

You forgot 16 and a 1/2 seconds!

 

[MaxStout]

Anybody that knows anything is well aware that 19 days, 13 hours and 46 minutes is ALWAYS the correct time to ferment any beer under any circumstances, excepting of course, when it's not the correct time.

I built a special 19d 13h 46m shot clock for my fermentation. One time it went off at 3AM and I jumped out of bed and ran downstairs. My wife came down and asked, "what the hell are you doing at this insane time?" I replied, "bottling, of course!"

Some things just won't wait.

 

[j1n]

21 days is a long time in the primary.... just sayin

 

[joshesmusica]

21 days is a long time in the primary.... just sayin

Why?

I currently have my Christmas porter coming up on 5 weeks in primary.

 

[j1n]

Why?

I currently have my Christmas porter coming up on 5 weeks in primary.

Because fermentation is gonna be complete way before you hit 21 days. majority of my beers are done within 10 days. only time i ever do a long primary is with sours.

Better question is why do you have your beer in the primary for 5 weeks?

 

[joshesmusica]

Because fermentation is gonna be complete way before you hit 21 days. majority of my beers are done within 10 days. only time i ever do a long primary is with sours.

Better question is why do you have your beer in the primary for 5 weeks?

I agree most ales will be completely done by 10 days. But that doesn't necessarily mean that leaving it for longer will do damage.

I originally planned on 4 weeks, but just have been a bit lazy the last week. I wanted it to sit on the cacao nibs, cinnamon, vanilla, and cloves for 2 weeks. Since I didn't care about saving the yeast, and my secondary fermenter was full, then I let it sit in primary. It's a high abv porter, so there's no rush, as it's just gonna sit in the bottles for a couple of months conditioning anyways.

 

[MattyIce]

Five weeks in primary is fine. No reason to rush. I can keg most of my beers after 5-10 days, but they still typically benefit after an additional 2-3 weeks of conditioning.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

if you are doing a primary, you're doing it wrong. I bottle right after pitching the yeast. that way I can drink it faster and brew more.

 

[joshesmusica]

if you are doing a primary, you're doing it wrong. I bottle right after pitching the yeast. that way I can drink it faster and brew more.

I thought you had completely stopped utilizing the boil as well?

 

[j1n]

i agree it wont do the beer damage by doing a longer primary. its just that its completely unnecessary. Also some people like myself don't want to wait forever to drink the beer that was brewed.

Also conditioning doesnt mean it has to stay in the primary. after i keg the beer, i let it force carb at room temp in the keg for 2 weeks. thats enough time for conditioning.

 

[singybrue]

Also conditioning doesnt mean it has to stay in the primary. after i keg the beer, i let it force carb at room temp in the keg for 2 weeks. thats enough time for conditioning.

Which is effectively the same as leaving it in primary for 3 weeks, isn't it?

 

[singybrue]

if you are doing a primary, you're doing it wrong. I bottle right after pitching the yeast. that way I can drink it faster and brew more.

Hell, I just eat the grain and drink the yeast. Just have to hold #2 for a day or so for the diacetyl rest.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

Hell, I just eat the grain and drink the yeast. Just have to hold #2 for a day or so for the diacetyl rest.

I drink only the freshest IPAs.

 

[Iseneye]

Which is effectively the same as leaving it in primary for 3 weeks, isn't it?

One is sitting on a yeast cake for a longer time and one is not. Does that make a difference? Possibly.

 

[Pyg]

The issue I have now is that I am unable to bottle next weekend as I am away.
I could cold crash before I leave and bottle Monday, but that leaves me to clean and sterilize all my bottles as soon as I return and this is just lot conducive to my schedule.
Which is why I am leaving it in for 3 weeks.
Not to mention since I don't intend to pop my first bottle until December I am in no rush.
If there is no harm in 3 weeks why rush!

 

[Brew_G]

Which is effectively the same as leaving it in primary for 3 weeks, isn't it?

Shhh...don't ruin it for him.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Because fermentation is gonna be complete way before you hit 21 days. majority of my beers are done within 10 days. only time i ever do a long primary is with sours.

Better question is why do you have your beer in the primary for 5 weeks?

There are a few that like to take their time. Sours obviously. But the Dupont yeast isn't always done at 3 weeks, even with good temp management (ie you'll be 95% of the way there in 1-2 weeks, but it might take another 2 weeks to knock out the last point or two of gravity).

 

[singybrue]

I drink only the freshest IPAs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX4Ey6Z0xRU

I noted a little starch haze in that beer. :rockin:

 

[Iseneye]

If there is no harm in 3 weeks why rush!

I'm going to be a nit-picker here but the corollary of that argument is if the beer is done in 2 weeks why wait? 2-3 weeks whatever. I guess the point you may get from this long thread is that HBT is not a single entity with one opinion.

 

[joshesmusica]

One is sitting on a yeast cake for a longer time and one is not. Does that make a difference? Possibly.

Nope.

Also notice that you're talking about your process, your equipment, the way you like your beer to taste, what's best for you, etc. It's completely fine to give advice about the way you like to do it, but don't go around claiming that you're making better beers by doing so.

If I'm kegging a beer, and it's a hoppier style, then hell yeah I can be drinking it by like day 14-15. If I plan to keg it, then yeah, I'll let it condition in the keg. Mainly for the cold conditioning part, not necessarily to get it off the yeast cake. If I'm bottling, then it all depends on the style. With the one I mentioned, I even said I was bottling and that it will be sitting in those bottles for another couple of months before I start enjoying them. So no, it doesn't make a difference. Then of course I have the time when I want the beer in the keg, but I'm in the process of emptying said keg.

You're part of the crowd that wants their beers packaged and drinking as quick as possible. Sometimes I'm in that camp. The OP is part of the group that likes to wait 3 weeks. Sometimes I'm siding with him. Either way, you claiming that your way is the right way is completely off-base, at least in generalizing it to most styles.

 

[joshesmusica]

I'm going to be a nit-picker here but the corollary of that argument is if the beer is done in 2 weeks why wait? 2-3 weeks whatever. I guess the point you may get from this long thread is that HBT is not a single entity with one opinion.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to wait.

Reasons I can think of why someone would want to rush it:
1) You're only drinking styles meant to drink fresh.
2) You need to get the pipeline full.
3) You're trying to turn a profit.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

to the OP's OP: people always think they know better than everyone else. I've been in shops like that and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I've been brewing for 16 years, but that sure as flocc doesn't mean I know it all. hell, I learn things from people that have been brewing only a year or two. the home brew shop people that pop off with some arrogant know-it-all crap lose my business. sure, you were asking advice. but that doesn't mean they have to be jerk holes about it. I've even noticed "revered" home brewers on different forums can get down right condescending. they lose my respect and my ear. I'd start giving some other place my business.

 

[gbx]

The original homebrew store in my town has a reputation for being "old school" (in a negative way) and are known to give advice and opinions that are contrary to many of the new trends in brewing that were popularized by the internet (ie. no secondary, BIAB, no-chill, hop bursting, etc). I know a lot of people who won't deal with them but they pay a heavy price: they are far cheaper than anywhere else in town and comparable to the best price online for the items they carry. I would put up with 3X the attitude to save $25 on a sack of grain (the savings are that good)

It was intimidating at first but now I dig it. Last time I was in I noticed that every Brew Craft product had something blacked out on the label. I asked what it said and was told: "It said Read Charlie Papazian's Joy of Homebrewing. Nobody should be reading that book anymore. That is the book you should be reading (points to John Palmer's How to Brew)". It made me smile and then I bought a sack of Weyermann for $55 (compared to $80 the other stores in town had quoted me when i called around).

 

[slym2none]

I'm going to be a nit-picker here but the corollary of that argument is if the beer is done in 2 weeks why wait? 2-3 weeks whatever. I guess the point you may get from this long thread is that HBT is not a single entity with one opinion.

2 weeks for fermentation to complete, 4 days to dry-hop, 3 days to cold crash - all in primary. 21 days.

3 weeks.

 

[petey_c]

I thought you had completely stopped utilizing the boil as well?

I'm following Coors' lead. I'm "Frost Brewing" my beer!

 

[GnenieGone]

Told our LHBS brewer guy, I was going to split my DIPA whirlpool into 180F and 140F additions. He just looked at me and said "Let me know how that turns out." That's the correct attitude. Besides they sample my stuff anyway.