Why do my ales seem "creamy"?

[gkeusch]

My ales (all I do) always seem "creamy" to me. Doesn't seem to matter what my grain bill or hop schedule is. Not necessarily bad but not something I am intentionally trying to achieve. I realize there are a zillion variables, but does this ring a bell with anybody? What conditions/ingredients/etc. lead to "creamy-ness? (I do all-grain, infusion mash.)

Thanks for any input.

 

[hamiltont]

How long are you leaving your beer in the primary fermenter and at what temp are you fermenting?

 

[wiescins]

What temp do you mash at?

 

[AnchorBock]

Could you post a few example recipes? What volume do you carbonate to (priming or force carbing with C02)?

 

[Bear419]

I occasionally get this something like this with my beer. I've noticed it seems to to correspond with late hop additions/dryhopping (though that may be a red herring). Does it age out? The "creaminess" in mine has always aged out for me in about 2-3 weeks.

 

[gkeusch]

How long are you leaving your beer in the primary fermenter and at what temp are you fermenting?

I typically leave it for one week. Temperature is whatever it is in my basement in Michigan (usually around mid 60's to 70.

 

[gkeusch]

Could you post a few example recipes? What volume do you carbonate to (priming or force carbing with C02)?

5# 2-row plain
2# light munich
1# carapils
Mash-in at 153 for an hour or so
fly sparge, collect, add 1 # honey and boil for an hour
1 oz cascade at start of boil
1/2 oz cascade last 10 min.
White labs ale yeast (can't remember which) from a starter
1 week in primary
1 week in secondary with 1 oz. Hallertau whole leaf hops
I keg it but use priming sugar for carbonation -I purge the headspace with CO2 but then turn off the gas and let the sugar do it.

 

[HawksBrewer]

That pound of carapils is giving you increased body that you are likely perceiving as "creamy." Leave out the carapils or reduce it to .25 lbs and see if that fixes your problem.

 

[hamiltont]

I typically leave it for one week. Temperature is whatever it is in my basement in Michigan (usually around mid 60's to 70.

Okay, I think you're tasting/feeling diacetyl. Google it and see if it fits. In lower amounts you may not taste or smell the butter/butterscotch. Try leaving your beer in the primary for 3 weeks next time and see if that doesn't fix it.

As well as reduce the carapils as mentioned Cheers!!!

 

[gkeusch]

Thanks for that. My previous complaint was that my beer seemed watery, so the advice I got was to use carapils - guess I went a bit overboard

 

[BradleyBrew]

Love carapils and I use it in every beer. I hate watery beer. I tried higher mash temps but for me the best answer was to use carapils in my grain bill.

 

[gkeusch]

Love carapils and I use it in every beer. I hate watery beer. I tried higher mash temps but for me the best answer was to use carapils in my grain bill.

So how much do you use, and do you think your beers have a creamy-ness?

 

[dbrewski]

Are you saying creaminess as in mouth-feel or flavor? One is "creamy" smooth feel, the other is "tastes kind of cream-like".

 

[gkeusch]

Are you saying creaminess as in mouth-feel or flavor? One is "creamy" smooth feel, the other is "tastes kind of cream-like".

That's a good question, and I am struggling with the answer. I wouldn't say it tastes like cream (as in dairy) but it seems a bit too smooth, so it's probably the mouthfeel. I'll have to have a few more tonight and concentrate on this aspect. - Thanks

 

[bchurch]

Thanks for that. My previous complaint was that my beer seemed watery, so the advice I got was to use carapils - guess I went a bit overboard

Someone with more knowledge on the subject can correct me if i'm wrong but I think up to 5% of the grist is what most people add on carapils.

 

[progmac]

maybe a lower temp mash and/or corn or rice will help. double check your thermometer, that it's calibrated. what kind of FG are you getting?

 

[gkeusch]

1.014

 

[progmac]

1.014

Seems to me like you are mashing pretty hot, especially since you are adding honey it seems like it ought to be lower than that. I would double check your thermometer and if it is fine lower your next mash to 149-150 and see if it comes out around 1.008-1.010 with less body. I pretty routinely get in the 1.005-1.008 range with a similar grain bill and neutral ale yeast.

i agree with the others and am not loving that carapils you have in there

If i had to guess, I'd bet your thermometer is off by about four degrees

 

[HawksBrewer]

Seems to me like you are mashing pretty hot, especially since you are adding honey it seems like it ought to be lower than that. I would double check your thermometer and if it is fine lower your next mash to 149-150 and see if it comes out around 1.008-1.010 with less body. I pretty routinely get in the 1.005-1.008 range with a similar grain bill and neutral ale yeast.

i agree with the others and am not loving that carapils you have in there

If i had to guess, I'd bet your thermometer is off by about four degrees

1.014 does not seem too far off for a lb of carapils in that 5 gal batch. Try .25 lbs on your next batch w/ an otherwise identical grain bill.

 

[jerrodm]

maybe a lower temp mash and/or corn or rice will help. double check your thermometer, that it's calibrated. what kind of FG are you getting?

I don't make cream ales, so I'm not really sure about this, but don't they usually add corn to give it a smooth, "silky" texture and sweetness that's specific to the style? So wouldn't adding corn potentially make it even more "creamy"?

Again, I might be mixed up here--I've never done a cream ale but I've seen recipes for them that seem usually to call for corn or rice adjuncts.

 

[gkeusch]

Thanks! I was a little dissapointed with the FG. All this makes good sense - I will adjust accordingly (that's what makes this hobby so much fun, and this forum so helpful).

 

[progmac]

1.014 does not seem too far off for a lb of carapils in that 5 gal batch. Try .25 lbs on your next batch w/ an otherwise identical grain bill.

i feel like with the honey it should bring it back down. But a pound is a lot, you're right, it could just be that.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Thanks for that. My previous complaint was that my beer seemed watery, so the advice I got was to use carapils - guess I went a bit overboard

If your beer tasted watery it was probably still green. Ive had a few batches that tasted that way and were a totally different beer after another 2 or 3 in the bottle.

 

[progmac]

I don't make cream ales, so I'm not really sure about this, but don't they usually add corn to give it a smooth, "silky" texture and sweetness that's specific to the style? So wouldn't adding corn potentially make it even more "creamy"?

Again, I might be mixed up here--I've never done a cream ale but I've seen recipes for them that seem usually to call for corn or rice adjuncts.

Yes, that's true and I am big on the cream ale style. But putting aside the name it is not a creamy beer. The corn dries it out and gives it a slight to moderate corn flavor. Corn becomes almost totally fermentable and acts very similarly to rice but imparts somewhat more flavor.

The style name is confusing and to add to it, some west coast types have been producing out-of-style 'cream ales' with lactose to make it taste like the name.

 

[HawksBrewer]

To make things more complicated.. I'm not even sure the OP was trying to make a cream ale, or was he? Looks more like a pale ale w/ some honey to me.

 

[gkeusch]

To make things more complicated.. I'm not even sure the OP was trying to make a cream ale, or was he? Looks more like a pale ale w/ some honey to me.

Correct - I was not trying for a cream ale, just a pale (pail) ale as you say. But it is interesting where this went because I was wondering if I was making a cream ale by accident...

 

[progmac]

To make things more complicated.. I'm not even sure the OP was trying to make a cream ale, or was he? Looks more like a pale ale w/ some honey to me.

Haha, no he wasn't. I had suggested he add some corn to dry it out, you wondered about it having the opposite effect and then I went off on a tangent.

 

[corkpuller]

A # of honey will go a long way toward negating the increased body form # of Carapils, so I don't think that's the problem...though I would still reduce the carapils to 1/2 a #.

I think low levels DMS and/or Diacetyl are your culprits.

1 Pitch proper yeast amount.
2 Control Fermentation Temps within the lower 3rd of your yeasts recommended temps. I use a water bath for this (with ice if necessary).
3 Raise temp (to upper 3rd of yeasts recommended range) at end of fermentation and hold for 3 days (diacetyl rest)
4 Leave in primary for 7 days post diacetyl rest

I like that recipe btw. It's a really good starting point.

Cheers

 

[jerrodm]

Ah, got it. As I said, I can't say I've ever even tried a cream ale, only seen the recipes floating around. I stick with mostly English styles.

 

[tagz]

You might try looking up your water profile. If you are low in sulfates, it can favor a more malty profile, rather than the crisp, bite you are looking for. Most people correct this with gypsum, but I would check your levels before you start adding anything to your water.

 

[BradleyBrew]

So how much do you use, and do you think your beers have a creamy-ness?

I typically use 8 oz.