Who has tried using crystal on the higher end?

[Gallagher1424]

Hey guys,

I like to experiment with different recipe's that may break the norm. The recipe i am going to try out is...

9lb 2-row
3lb Crystal 40l
2oz Cascade (60 min)
0.5oz amarillo (30 min)
0.5 oz amarillo (10 mins)
1 oz amarillo (dry)

IBU:51
SRM:13
ABV:6.2%

I'm completely aware how unconventional this is. Given that i used a large amount of crystal in my grain bill. Could you balance the sweetness out with more hops? Yes you could just use less crystal and the problem is solved, but just out of curiosity, has anyone tried something similar?

(Please critique with an open mind)

 

[Keith81]

I don't think I've gone to 25% crystal. In my opinion you'd need a lot more IBUs at the beginning of the boil and it still may have a sweet after taste.

 

[thehaze]

If you are adding lots of Crystal malts, then it's kind of counterproductive to add more hops to balance it out. I would assume that the experiment is to see how the beer turns out without balancing it out. I've gone 25-30% Crystal malts and the beers were not sweet. A beer does not turn sweet just because you add lots of Crystal malts. There's of course differences in palettes and each has its own threshold.

Looking at your recipe, you are wasting good hops for something that will suffocate all hop aroma and flavour. Just use the cheapest you find and bitter at 60' and call it a day. That's a much better experiment, which will not leave you thinking that you could have saved the Amarillo for something else.

But if you are going that route, then you need more hops. Not for bittering, but anything in the last 5 minuts of boil, whirlpool and dry hop. This will probably add some aroma and flavour. Turn it into a Hoppy Amber.

 

[Miraculix]

If you are adding lots of Crystal malts, then it's kind of counterproductive to add more hops to balance it out. I would assume that the experiment is to see how the beer turns out without balancing it out. I've gone 25-30% Crystal malts and the beers were not sweet. A beer does not turn sweet just because you add lots of Crystal malts. There's of course differences in palettes and each has its own threshold.

Looking at your recipe, you are wasting good hops for something that will suffocate all hop aroma and flavour. Just use the cheapest you find and bitter at 60' and call it a day. That's a much better experiment, which will not leave you thinking that you could have saved the Amarillo for something else.

But if you are going that route, then you need more hops. Not for bittering, but anything in the last 5 minuts of boil, whirlpool and dry hop. This will probably add some aroma and flavour. Turn it into a Hoppy Amber.

People always forget that the enzymes during the mash also chop the longer Crystal malt sugars into fermentables. If Crystal malt is steeped separately, than it will stay sweet, but onlyif it never comes into contact with the mash enzymes.

But this is the same type of misunderstanding as clear wort equals clear beer. Both seem to stay forever.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

To a large degree, I agree with The Haze ^^^. Using a lot of crystal is not revolutionary even though everyone talks about the “cloying sweetness”. I’ve used 25% crystal malt before and its not that crazy. Further if you are showcasing the malt, you should limit the hops as well as using hops that compliment the malt. If it was me I would use traditional English hops like East Kent Goldings or Fuggles because they won’t overshadow your the malt character. Also, I might split up your crystal addition into 1 lb. each of 20, 40 and 60L crystal to get a richer malt flavor.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... the enzymes during the mash also chop the longer Crystal malt sugars into fermentables.

If Crystal malt is steeped separately, than it will stay sweet, but only if it never comes into contact with the mash enzymes.

Yeast strains also play a role. Over in the dry yeast selection, Windsor doesn't utilize maltotriose (check current product information sheets), and details on Fermentis strains can be found in one of their current brochures.

It could be interesting to ferment a 100% crystal malt wort with different yeast and some additional enzymes.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Have made beer with only crystal, hops, water, yeast.

It was drinkable, but not something I would try again.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Have made beer with only crystal, hops, water, yeast.

It was drinkable, but not something I would try again.

No doubt. I may have left this

It could be interesting to ferment a 100% crystal malt wort with different yeast and some additional enzymes.

a little too open ended. I was thinking of fermenting and measuring results (FG, ...), perhaps taste the wort/beer in the fermenter and maybe bottle some of the 'best' results.

 

[Miraculix]

No doubt. I may have left this



a little too open ended. I was thinking of fermenting and measuring results (FG, ...), perhaps taste the wort/beer in the fermenter and maybe bottle some of the 'best' results.

For the sake of drinkability, I would rather try fermenting a 15% split batch crystal malt beer with the same yeast, once the crystal mashed with the base malt and once the crystal steeped alone and added to the boil when the water was already boiling, so when all enzymes are denatured.

I think this has actually already been done, I just do not remember where I saw it. The results were 1.crystal still contains starches 2.crystall contains unfermentables which are turned into fermentables if mashed together with base malt 3.crystal does not enhance sweetness if mashed with base malt but it brings a distinctive flavour. 4. If you want sweetness from crystal, gotta steep it without base malt, but than you have to deal with some starches....

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Pushing the Limits: a 90% Crystal Malt Beer ?

 

[MaxStout]

What flavor profile are you actually targeting? If it's sweetness, then a lot of crystal will get you there. But if you're really after more malt backbone, you can use different base malts (Vienna, Maris, etc.) to do it.

 

[shoengine]

Ugh. After reading all that, we don't know what it tasted like!!

 

[Gallagher1424]

Finished this batch with 25% Crystal. I mashed it low at 149 degrees. And it tastes pretty darn good. It's missing some body because of the low mash, but all around very drinkable.

 

[ESBrewer]

According to this forum many people have actually brewed these 25% crystal beers so there should be plenty of first hand experience available. It is definitely possible and there is a useful thread, I think by Nilo?, where the fermentability of crystal was studied.

The sweetish flavors come from a very complex mixture of compounds formed in Maillard reactions when the sugars of the partially ''mashed" malt kernels are heated up in presence of other barley compounds in the roasting drum. These derivates are not fermentable and these give the typical toffeeish, nutty, caramel tones to the beer. So it is not quite the same type of plain sugar sweetness that is left if not all simple sugar gets fermented. The fraction of these melanoidin etc compounds is relatively low so that most of the malt sugar is still fermentable (especially if mashed well with the base malt that contains active enzymes). So it is possible to brew at 20-30% and the change in say, FG, is likely modest. But the flavors of melanoidins and other resulting compounds becomes intensified so that the flavor and its balance will change.

If you like your beer with 25% crystal, just go for it. I suggest that you name it accordingly (Mike's HC(high crystal) Ale etc) and don't pretend it being say standard British bitter cause it won't be that anymore, the flavor and balance just shifted away that classification. The reason why you probably see a lot of posts where people advice you to use low % crystal is that in these posts people often say they want to brew some trad styles that simply do not contain that much crystal malt.

Also, keep on mind that the flavor profile of certain beer styles depends heavily on yeast character. Sometimes people seem to be go very high in crystal-% when they are actually looking for some flavors and small amounts of residual sweetness that could & should be produced by the proper yeast strain (this seems to be the case when something like us-05 is used to brew British ales) or a more suitable base malt.

 

[applescrap]

haha cool, love the spirit. I was thinking what about adding sugar to thin body, but that seems counterintuitive. Maybe fruit loops or jolly ranchers?

 

[Miraculix]

I wonder how a Crystal stout would taste like.... .basically swapping the roasted stuff for really dark Crystal. Or a Crystal dark mild maybe..... My goodness..... So many things to try!

 

[applescrap]

that simpsons double roast is like candy. This guy used it as a snack for his kids.