Who has made bourbon or whiskey?

[RyanDe680]

I am surprised that more people haven't whether or not you want to admit it...

I am questioning the effective use of a MLT and Boil kettle to do a 80 corn, 12 6 row, 8 rye run to see what you get....

I would like to try and pot distill water first. I have a bunch of equipment prior to going all electric on my set up, so I can put something together...

 

[Gnomebrewer]

You can't mash 80% corn. Not even close. Not even with BIAB (I've tried it).

Corn's messy to work with. All-malt whisky is much easier to make (for those who are already set up for AG beer brewing). And tastes much better!

 

[RyanDe680]

You can't mash 80% corn. Not even close. Not even with BIAB (I've tried it).

Corn's messy to work with. All-malt whisky is much easier to make (for those who are already set up for AG beer brewing). And tastes much better!

Why not? With a false bottom and hop screen, I don’t care what makes it through to the wort. I’ve never had a stuck sparge on my setup with corn in the grain bill.

 

[jimmayhugh]

I am questioning the effective use of a MLT and Boil kettle to do a 80 corn, 12 6 row, 8 rye run to see what you get....

Mostly a big gooey mess, depending on the type of corn.

Cornmeal or cracked corn has to be gelatinized first with near boiling water before attempting to use the malted barley, it also helps to use a high-temperature amylase extract to help break down the gelatinized starches before mashing in the 6 row.

Flaked maize is easier to work with, but still difficult and also benefits from the high-temp amylase.

If you're using flaked rye instead of malted rye, the 6 row may not have enough diastatic power to convert the whole thing. Malted rye or additional mashing temperature amylase might be a better option.

Lots and LOTS of rice hulls are also your friend.

 

[bracconiere]

low efficiency also, i never make whiskey, but when i do, i add sucrose to bump the ABV to 16% so i get an even gallon of cask strength 65%

(but it sounds like your trying to mod your boil kettle into something? i use a 4' stainless 3" column, on what i believe is a milk pail....lol, got it from brewhaus, a long time ago)

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Why not? With a false bottom and hop screen, I don’t care what makes it through to the wort. I’ve never had a stuck sparge on my setup with corn in the grain bill.

Because it just becomes a big gooey, doughy, sloppy mess that soaks up water. Without a bucket load of rice hulls, you WILL block your sparge and will find that liquid just doesn't run off - it all stays in the goop. With lots of rice hulls, you might get some runoff, but efficiency will be low. Corn in your grain bill is different to 88% corn/rye. Try boiling some corn in a pot to get an idea of what you're working with - use 1 part cracked corn to 4 parts water by weight.

 

[Bombo80]

I washed a bourbon a few weeks ago. I scooped it out of the fermenter, half gallon at a time (beer pitcher), and filtered it through a grain bag I made out of polyester mosquito netting. Then put the remaining grains in a 5 gallon paint strainer bag and pressed the remaining fluid out if it with my fruit press.

As you can see, the filtered mash is still pretty cloudy. This is after about an hour after filtering. I wanted to get everything cleaned up before taking any pictures. You can see about a 2 inch layer of sediment in the right carboy (7 gallons), but not so much in the left carboy (6 gallons). I checked them last night ans they are getting clearer each day. The sediment layer hasn't got much thicker either.

Many stillers use new mop buckets with paint strainer bags to squeeze the grains.
I doubt ANY false bottom would be able to handle the amount of sediment of a predominantly corn mash. BTW, I have done an all corn mash too. It is just as hard to deal with as a bourbon mash.
As far as efficiency, I got about 55%. This was my first bourbon batch. I am still pretty new to this hobby.

I would say, go ahead and try it with your false bottom, but be ready to scoop it out and filter it differently.

Good Luck !!

 

[Hammy71]

As others have stated. Using a false bottom and a bag, you still get a solid mass of goo. Sorta like cream of wheat. Lauter takes for ever and forget about recirculating. Experiment yourself and see.

 

[One Eye Ross]

I am thinking of using a two way scratch (corn and wheat - corn is cracked). I plan to use that as about 40% of the grain bill and use 2 row malt (I know, 6 row would be better, but I've ordered amylase to make up the difference) as the rest of the grain bill.

As I understand things, I should put the corn into boiling water and let it soften up a bit (well, a lot, actually.) My concern is the wheat in the scratch. Would that cause problems?

 

[BigEd]

I am surprised that more people haven't whether or not you want to admit it...

I am questioning the effective use of a MLT and Boil kettle to do a 80 corn, 12 6 row, 8 rye run to see what you get....

I would like to try and pot distill water first. I have a bunch of equipment prior to going all electric on my set up, so I can put something together...

If you're going to use corn I'd strongly suggest flaked and I'd also back down from 80%. Bourbon is defined as a minimum of 51% corn, the rest being barley malt, rye, and/or wheat. I use 60% flaked maize, 25% pale malt, and 15% rye malt. With a 25lb grain bill and a couple of pounds of rice hulls it mashes and runs off well in my cooler MLT with PVC-II tubing manifold. I do add some additional enzyme content to the mash and use 144F for about 90 minutes.

Cracked corn, as described by others already, is a big PITA. I tried it once after having been given a bag, never again. Flaked maize is readily available and practically dissolves during the mashing process.

BTW you don't have to worry about looking for six-row malt. Two-row domestic pale malt is fine as the enzyme difference in today's product is negligible.

 

[Soulshine2]

I am surprised that more people haven't whether or not you want to admit it...

I am questioning the effective use of a MLT and Boil kettle to do a 80 corn, 12 6 row, 8 rye run to see what you get....

I would like to try and pot distill water first. I have a bunch of equipment prior to going all electric on my set up, so I can put something together...

thats my recipe...it works great. Ive made numerous batches of it. rest it on charred oak chips for 2 weeks . filter through coffee filter . as it bottle ages it gets better.
My next step with it is I made some maple charcoal to mellow it ,made the charcoal just havent run it through yet.

 

[Soulshine2]

save about 1/3 of your backset while its hot and use it dissolve the sugar and start the next batch so its sour mash from then on.

 

[Soulshine2]

If you're going to use corn I'd strongly suggest flaked and I'd also back down from 80%. Bourbon is defined as a minimum of 51% corn, the rest being barley malt, rye, and/or wheat. I use 60% flaked maize, 25% pale malt, and 15% rye malt. With a 25lb grain bill and a couple of pounds of rice hulls it mashes and runs off well in my cooler MLT with PVC-II tubing manifold. I do add some additional enzyme content to the mash and use 144F for about 90 minutes.

Cracked corn, as described by others already, is a big PITA. I tried it once after having been given a bag, never again. Flaked maize is readily available and practically dissolves during the mashing process.

BTW you don't have to worry about looking for six-row malt. Two-row domestic pale malt is fine as the enzyme difference in today's product is negligible.

80% corn
12% barley
8% rye
is exactly Jack Daniel's recipes

 

[Soulshine2]

You can't mash 80% corn. Not even close. Not even with BIAB (I've tried it).

Corn's messy to work with. All-malt whisky is much easier to make (for those who are already set up for AG beer brewing). And tastes much better!

yes you sure can, I've done it ...so has Jack Daniel's distillery since Mr Jack started it.

 

[BigEd]

yes you sure can, I've done it ...so has Jack Daniel's distillery since Mr Jack started it.

Yes, you can mash it but not in the same way you would mash and ferment a drinking beer. JD and other big commercial distillers are fermenting the mash, not a wort that's run off the grain in the manner a drinking beer would be made. I'm guessing that because of the method and the more liquid consistency of such a mash the conversion is still going on for a time into the fermenting stage.

Having tried the traditional mash ferment once, at the insistence of my distilling partner who had to try the old-timey method, I'd much rather do a conventional wort run off and get rid of the grains right after the mash. To me it's just much easier than trying to separate later. I think this is what the Scotch whisky makers do.

 

[JHulen]

You can't mash 80% corn. Not even close. Not even with BIAB (I've tried it).

Corn's messy to work with. All-malt whisky is much easier to make (for those who are already set up for AG beer brewing). And tastes much better!

That’s a matter of opinion. I’ll take bourbon over scotch any day.

 

[Soulshine2]

Yes, you can mash it but not in the same way you would mash and ferment a drinking beer. JD and other big commercial distillers are fermenting the mash, not a wort that's run off the grain in the manner a drinking beer would be made. I'm guessing that because of the method and the more liquid consistency of such a mash the conversion is still going on for a time into the fermenting stage.

Having tried the traditional mash ferment once, at the insistence of my distilling partner who had to try the old-timey method, I'd much rather do a conventional wort run off and get rid of the grains right after the mash. To me it's just much easier than trying to separate later. I think this is what the Scotch whisky makers do.

this is in a distilling page if you didnt notice

 

[Soulshine2]

Mostly a big gooey mess, depending on the type of corn.

Cornmeal or cracked corn has to be gelatinized first with near boiling water before attempting to use the malted barley, it also helps to use a high-temperature amylase extract to help break down the gelatinized starches before mashing in the 6 row.

Flaked maize is easier to work with, but still difficult and also benefits from the high-temp amylase.

If you're using flaked rye instead of malted rye, the 6 row may not have enough diastatic power to convert the whole thing. Malted rye or additional mashing temperature amylase might be a better option.

Lots and LOTS of rice hulls are also your friend.

i use 100% rye flour in my 80/12/8 whiskey mash. much easier to find and turns out the same. measure all by weight instead of volume.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Jack Daniel's tastes like crap. I agree with @Gnomebrewer that single malt is easier to DIY and tastes better. Brew up a few batches and experiment with adding flaked corn a bit at a time to find the limitations of your skills and setup.

 

[Soulshine2]

Yes, you can mash it but not in the same way you would mash and ferment a drinking beer. JD and other big commercial distillers are fermenting the mash, not a wort that's run off the grain in the manner a drinking beer would be made. I'm guessing that because of the method and the more liquid consistency of such a mash the conversion is still going on for a time into the fermenting stage.

Having tried the traditional mash ferment once, at the insistence of my distilling partner who had to try the old-timey method, I'd much rather do a conventional wort run off and get rid of the grains right after the mash. To me it's just much easier than trying to separate later. I think this is what the Scotch whisky makers do.

mash grains in a bucket with half the bucket of boiling water and a 4 lb bag of sugar, stir ,allow to sit 2 hours, add cold water to until it cools. stirring a couple times, toss two packets of bread yeast on top ,ferment with a lid. filter through a pillow case ,distill.

 

[Soulshine2]

Jack Daniel's tastes like crap. I agree with @Gnomebrewer that single malt is easier to DIY and tastes better. Brew up a few batches and experiment with adding flaked corn a bit at a time to find the limitations of your skills and setup.

we love jack. I dont care for 100% corn moonshine as others do. taste is different for everyone. kinda like IPAs

 

[Gnomebrewer]

this is in a distilling page if you didnt notice

yes you sure can, I've done it ...so has Jack Daniel's distillery since Mr Jack started it.

The OP asked about using a traditional beer brewing setup to mash and boil (presumably with a sparge) an 80% corn mash. Mr Jack doesn't do that, Mr Jack ferments on the corn. The answers you are giving seem to be forgetting the original question.

 

[Soulshine2]

The OP asked about using a traditional beer brewing setup to mash and boil (presumably with a sparge) an 80% corn mash. Mr Jack doesn't do that, Mr Jack ferments on the corn. The answers you are giving seem to be forgetting the original question.

I am surprised that more people haven't whether or not you want to admit it...

I am questioning the effective use of a MLT and Boil kettle to do a 80 corn, 12 6 row, 8 rye run to see what you get....

I would like to try and pot distill water first. I have a bunch of equipment prior to going all electric on my set up, so I can put something together...

this was the original question, in a distilling page. I read nothing about making beer. I answered as I read into it. it was rather vague what the OP was doing.

 

[BigEd]

mash grains in a bucket with half the bucket of boiling water and a 4 lb bag of sugar, stir ,allow to sit 2 hours, add cold water to until it cools. stirring a couple times, toss two packets of bread yeast on top ,ferment with a lid. filter through a pillow case ,distill.

Four pound of sugar?! That's skullpop, not whiskey. Thanks for the tip but I think I'll stick to my own recipes.

 

[Soulshine2]

skullpop? never heard that term.
ok you can use more or less sugar ...
It wasnt for you in the first place...it was more directed for the OP . Recipe was from "tried and true recipes" off of HomeDistiller.org .
btw , that recipe in 5 gallons as a sourmash puts out a 128 proof distillate. rest it on toasted/charred oak chips 2 weeks and you got a smooooooth flavorful liquor.
dont knock it until you've sipped it.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

btw , that recipe in 5 gallons as a sourmash puts out a 128 proof distillate.

ABV/Proof depends on the still, how it's run, what cuts are made etc. as much as the recipe.

 

[Soulshine2]

5 gallon Clawhammer reflux style still.
everyone has their own recipe they like. Taste isnt the same for everyone. I dont particularly care for the shine put out by those guys on tv. Tastes like kerosene smells to me.
Some shiners use a simple sweetfeed from the tractor supply. some like just corn (white corn meal , yellow corn meal , cracked ,the old timers would use whole malted corn without sugar.I have yet to try that.) while others like a little varied mix of barley and/or rye in it to give it a unique flavor. Some use straight rye.
Popcorn Suttons recipe was said to have changed for whoever he made it for . Either that or his recipe changed as to who he was telling so nobody actually knew what it really was, which I can believe. Kinda like telling someone where your favorite morel or ginseng patch is. You don't.
What you do with it after is as unique to the taste. You can charcoal mellow it, just age it , age it on toasted or charred white oak .Add apple pie flavorings.peaches,pears,watermelon, cherries,you name it, someone has done it or at least thought about it.
cuts are simple- I run/toss out no less than 1 oz per gallon starting volume so in my case I run off 5 oz of the foreshots. (I actually save it to start fires,its excellent starter fluid. )
I carefully test each ounce after by a taste ,if it doesnt take my breath away or give me an instant headache , I take a tiny bit placed on a metal work table and light it, if I still get a yellow flame off of it I continue to toss it. Once my flame test is a nice solid blue ,I save it. highest proof of the first pint cut I've ever had has been 138 .
I run off into pint jars and number them as I go. Last batch with the recipe I mentioned a post or so up I was at the end of my jars and had already saved 6 jars from 128 down to 86 and it was still running so I kept running it off into a jack daniel's bottle. almost half that bottle full came out in the high 70's .
I like my recipe and I know my still.
which reminds me, today is a batch run day.

 

[Anajoul]

Hi guys! Have you ever come across Mizunara Oak chips? I've been hearing some buzz about that lately. I also saw that it is now available in the USA on MizunaraCraft.com, and I'm curious if anyone here has tried incorporating it into their aging process. I'm all ears for any firsthand experiences or insights you might have!

 

[forestbeekeeper]

I make corn whiskey.

5# of finely cracked corn with 5# of sugar, it ferments just fine. Usually within about 5 days, sometimes in winter it may take 2 weeks to finish.

I have been in competitions against pot stills. I use a refractory column still.