White labs vial not working!!!!

[DSochBrewing]

I am brewing a pumpkins ale from Austin homebrew extract. I pitched the white labs British ale yeast and it's 36 hours in and still no fermentation starting. This is NOT my first batch but my first yeast gone wrong. I called Austin homebrew and they said if I don't see activity by tomorrow to call them and get a new yeast pack ASAP ! I'm curious if allowing the wort to sit for almost 3 days before fermentation begins BAD? I'm upset that I may dump a batch and I don't eat too.... HELP

 

[pabloj13]

I am brewing a pumpkins ale from Austin homebrew extract. I pitched the white labs British ale yeast and it's 36 hours in and still no fermentation starting. This is NOT my first batch but my first yeast gone wrong. I called Austin homebrew and they said if I don't see activity by tomorrow to call them and get a new yeast pack ASAP ! I'm curious if allowing the wort to sit for almost 3 days before fermentation begins BAD? I'm upset that I may dump a batch and I don't eat too.... HELP

1) Did you use a starter?
2) How do you know there's no activity?
3) https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/fermentation-can-take-24-72-hrs-show-visible-signs-43635/

 

[DSochBrewing]

I didnt use a starter...I just pitched the vial sent with the extract kit....which has always worked before. It's been 36 hours since I pitched yeast and the airlock isn't bubbling at all ( no pressure) .

 

[Silverbullet]

Give it more time. My WL500 starters regularly take closer to 72 hrs to take off.

 

[pabloj13]

I didnt use a starter...I just pitched the vial sent with the extract kit....which has always worked before. It's been 36 hours since I pitched yeast and the airlock isn't bubbling at all ( no pressure) .

Well, you really should be using a starter. Are you in a bucket by chance? Did you read the thread I posted?

 

[DSochBrewing]

Yes I did read your reply...thank you for that by the way...I was told I had two choices on og's over 1.060. One was to build a starter and the other was to pitch two packs of yeast. So for this batch which is in a bucket with an airlock , the og was 1.052 before I pitched, I was told I didn't need a starter with a og at that level

 

[pabloj13]

Yes I did read your reply...thank you for that by the way...I was told I had two choices on og's over 1.060. One was to build a starter and the other was to pitch two packs of yeast. So for this batch which is in a bucket with an airlock , the og was 1.052 before I pitched, I was told I didn't need a starter with a og at that level

Have you looked in the bucket. Airlock means nothing. You might just have a leaky bucket. It's good practice to build starters for anything over 1.035 or so. How old was your vial?

 

[DSochBrewing]

Have you looked in the bucket. Airlock means nothing. You might just have a leaky bucket. It's good practice to build starters for anything over 1.035 or so. How old was your vial?

Yes... AHS told me to open and stir vigorously with sanitary spoon and I did....bucket is about a year old but the lid seems very good and solid, the yeast wasn't expiring till sept 2012, it was shipped to me is cold pack but with the crazy heat lately I think it came warm to my house, then I refrigerated it, then before pitching brought it to room temp like instructed. Hoping for the best

 

[pabloj13]

Yes... AHS told me to open and stir vigorously with sanitary spoon and I did....bucket is about a year old but the lid seems very good and solid, the yeast wasn't expiring till sept 2012, it was shipped to me is cold pack but with the crazy heat lately I think it came warm to my house, then I refrigerated it, then before pitching brought it to room temp like instructed. Hoping for the best

Well that's still a pretty old vial. My guess is you just underpitched pretty badly. Leave it alone and I bet you'll see a krausen in the next day or two. If you don't see anything at 72 hours, then I'd consider repitching, prehaps dry yeast if you have a local supply.

EDIT: Yeah, upon looking at Mrmalty.com you had 4 month-old yeast (White labs expiration date is 6 months after production) which has 11% viability. So you pitched 11 billion cells. You should have pitched 182 billion cells. That's a pretty bad underpitch. Can you get some dry yeast?

 

[Silverbullet]

11%? Beersmith says otherwise. Sit back and relax, it will be chugging away within the next day our two tops. However, this is a prime example of why you would use a starter even if not "needed". Since I started using starters for every batch, it's never taken more than 8 hrs to take off. The starter itself is another story, as I previously mentioned...

 

[pabloj13]

11%? Beersmith says otherwise. Sit back and relax, it will be chugging away within the next day our two tops. However, this is a prime example of why you would use a starter even if not "needed". Since I started using starters for every batch, it's never taken more than 8 hrs to take off. The starter itself is another story, as I previously mentioned...

Beersmith says otherwise for 4 month old yeast? What viability does it give? Yeatcalc says 10%. Unless I am reading something wrong. White Labs expiration date is 6 months post production so yeast that expires in Sept was made in March.

 

[Silverbullet]

Beersmith says otherwise for 4 month old yeast? What viability does it give? Yeatcalc says 10%. Unless I am reading something wrong. White Labs expiration date is 6 months post production so yeast that expires in Sept was made in March.

72% viability. White Labs says their yeast is good for 4 months - http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew_FAQ.html Even if using 6 months, it still comes up with 44%.

 

[pabloj13]

72% viability. White Labs says their yeast is good for 4 months - http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew_FAQ.html Even if using 6 months, it still comes up with 44%.

It says right in your FAQ that you just linked that they even calculate viability at 75% at one month. Beersmith is on crack. Will fermentation start? Sure. But pitching liquid yeast without a starter was already an under pitch, let alone pitching older yeast with no starter. It'll make beer, but those yeast are going to be pretty stressed.

 

[DSochBrewing]

It says right in your FAQ that you just linked that they even calculate viability at 75% at one month. Beersmith is on crack. Will fermentation start? Sure. But pitching liquid yeast without a starter was already an under pitch, let alone pitching older yeast with no starter. It'll make beer, but those yeast are going to be pretty stressed.

i have to call AHS ...i checked this morning and still no bubbles in aiirlock. BUT you guys say that is still ok, ive never had a yeast not take off , normally its going after 12 hours STRONG ! i think you guys are right about re-pitching yeast....im going to my local store to buy dry yeast!! i want this pumpkin ale to drink!!!!! one of my favorite beers for fall season!!!!

 

[pabloj13]

i have to call AHS ...i checked this morning and still no bubbles in aiirlock. BUT you guys say that is still ok, ive never had a yeast not take off , normally its going after 12 hours STRONG ! i think you guys are right about re-pitching yeast....im going to my local store to buy dry yeast!! i want this pumpkin ale to drink!!!!! one of my favorite beers for fall season!!!!

Again, just to be sure, don't use the airlock. Take the bucket lid off and look. Take a gravity reading with a hydrometer. Do these things first before doing anything else and let us know what they say.

 

[PA49erFan21]

Yes I did read your reply...thank you for that by the way...I was told I had two choices on og's over 1.060. One was to build a starter and the other was to pitch two packs of yeast. So for this batch which is in a bucket with an airlock , the og was 1.052 before I pitched, I was told I didn't need a starter with a og at that level

You do not NEED to double pitch or use a starter under 1.060 but it is always recommended to get a good vigorous fermentation no matter the OG.

Have you looked in the bucket. Airlock means nothing. You might just have a leaky bucket. It's good practice to build starters for anything over 1.035 or so. How old was your vial?

This has happened to me before. I once used the wrong lid on my fermenting bucket which did fit, but did not create a 'seal' which caused my airlock to remain 'dead'. Yet when I checked the gravity it was indeed working. (I have 2 different fermenting buckets)

Yes... AHS told me to open and stir vigorously with sanitary spoon and I did....bucket is about a year old but the lid seems very good and solid, the yeast wasn't expiring till sept 2012, it was shipped to me is cold pack but with the crazy heat lately I think it came warm to my house, then I refrigerated it, then before pitching brought it to room temp like instructed. Hoping for the best

You should stir up the wort especially when you have it sitting for a few days before pitching the yeast to mix in needed oxygen that it has lost the past couple of days.

Another idea is that the heat killed a majority of the yeast while in transit during this heat wave. I've had 2 vials of white labs sent to me from AHS where the ice pack has completely disolved, but since I used a starter I've had great success.

I'm thinking it is either
1. an air leak somewhere or...
2. you did not mix in enough oxygen before adding the yeast, after allowing the wort to sit for a few days.

 

[Homercidal]

Do a favor and take a hydrometer reading before freaking out. The bubbles in the airlock (or lack thereof) are not a reliable indicator of fermentation. Any tiny leak will cause the airlock to not bubble. You may see some krausen, you may even smell some CO2. But only a hydrometer reading will tell you if the sugars are actually being converted to alcohol and CO2 reliably.

I always prefer to use a starter for any liquid yeast, no matter the gravity. It will boost cell count and also serves to proof the yeast.

 

[PA49erFan21]

I always prefer to use a starter for any liquid yeast, no matter the gravity. It will boost cell count and also serves to proof the yeast.

Word of caution though with using a starter as I found out not once, but twice.... Either use a blowoff valve or use defoamer drops. Otherwise you'll get a nice mess on your hands.

 

[DSochBrewing]

Word of caution though with using a starter as I found out not once, but twice.... Either use a blowoff valve or use defoamer drops. Otherwise you'll get a nice mess on your hands.

heres the update: i called austin homebrew and they have gotten more calls in regards to bad yeast from heat during shipment. they sent me a brand new vial but told me it will take a week to arrive. i couldnt wait so i went to the local store to buy $4 yeast pack and was instructed to pitch dry yeast. so i did about 7 hours. when i did there was no krausen telling me that nothing had been working. now i wait till tomorrow morning to see if i can visually see it working. fingers crossed!!

 

[pabloj13]

heres the update: i called austin homebrew and they have gotten more calls in regards to bad yeast from heat during shipment. they sent me a brand new vial but told me it will take a week to arrive. i couldnt wait so i went to the local store to buy $4 yeast pack and was instructed to pitch dry yeast. so i did about 7 hours. when i did there was no krausen telling me that nothing had been working. now i wait till tomorrow morning to see if i can visually see it working. fingers crossed!!

Did you stir it really well to aerate it a little before pitching? Did you rehydrate it?

 

[DSochBrewing]

Did you stir it really well to aerate it a little before pitching? Did you rehydrate it?

The owner of the brew store told me to just sprinkle dry yeast on the top and leave it. I have done that method before and had success. I asked him and he said its not needed to stir it in. I'm only a 1.5yr home brewer so I have a lot to learn still.

 

[heferly]

I've never rehydrated and haven't had any problems...but, I do make sure the yeast gets incorporated in the wort, swirling/shaking it up, essentially rehydrating. Give it some swirls, and I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

[DSochBrewing]

Airlock was bubbling away this morning 7am east coast, and i just got home now and its still bubbling hard!! good news for me but im still nervous it may taste funny. the first pitch of yeast is dead yeast in there as well as the wort was just sitting for 72 hours not working. Any thoughts on whether you guys think it may taste funny??

 

[pabloj13]

Airlock was bubbling away this morning 7am east coast, and i just got home now and its still bubbling hard!! good news for me but im still nervous it may taste funny. the first pitch of yeast is dead yeast in there as well as the wort was just sitting for 72 hours not working. Any thoughts on whether you guys think it may taste funny??

You have heard RDWHAHB, right? Now is a good time for that.

 

[Silverbullet]

If the other yeast were dead, it will be yeast nutrient for your new guys....a good thing.