Whirlpool Attachment Question

[Mob_Barley]

I plan on using my immersion chiller in my brew kettle on my RIMS to cool the wort. The plan is to add some ice to the HLT and use the second pump to circulate the ice water through the IC with hot wort being pumped with the other pump through a whirlpool attachment. The reasons why I decided to go this route instead of buying a Therminator are mainly economic and sanitation related. I already have an IC from my Cooler setup, and from what I've read, it can be difficult to keep the Therminator thoroughly sanitary. By using the IC and ice water, there will not be any sanitation issues because the wort will not be passing through an external cooling device.

My question is this, my IC is 40' of 3/8" OD copper in a rather tight coil and I believe the whirlpool will really speed up the cooling of the wort, but how well will the trub be centrifuged to the center of the BK if it is directed straight into the tight coils of the IC to aid in the circulation and cooling of the wort? I plan on putting a Blichmann HopBlocker on a separate discharge line on the BK and its efficiency will depend a lot on how well the edge of the BK is cleared of trub by the whirlpool. Any feedback will be appreciated.

I don't really need any feedback on how the Therminator would be a better solution since I have already committed to the IC, HopBlocker and whirlpool set-up. Thanks...

 

[Brewers Hardware]

In my 26G kettle, I stood the IC about 2" off the bottom of the kettle and that seemed to really help with the cone pile formation. I built a copper whirlpool return that was my shelf. I wish I had pictures, but what I did was build a long "L" that came down the kettle wall, turned 90, stretched across the kettle, then 90 down 2" and 90 right with a 1/2" to 3/8" reducer to get the flow speed up. Then I took 2 copper tees and cut the tops off (lengthwise so the tee was intact but the straight-through leg was cut) so I could place them on the horizontal pipe and soldered them in place to make the other 2 legs so it would be stable. I cut the tees apart so that wort would only have 1 path to flow and it would be easier to clean, what I wanted was a cross but one that would only flow straight through and wasn't open to the other 2 legs.

Anyway, this created a 2" high shelf/whirlpool return in my kettle I could just plop my IC down on.

 

[Mob_Barley]

Yea, but short of fabricating all that (which I can't even visualize), I'm wondering how well it works as designed? Are there any "simple" modifications that need to be made so the whirlpool not only helps with the cooling, but also builds a nice trub cone in the center of the BK?

 

[Maltose]

i have thought about this as well. my process would be the same as OP, but after the whirlpool has settled (~30m) wouldn't the trub be disturbed when picking the IC out of the kettle?

 

[Retarded_Penguin_Brewing]

I was actually just reading another thread earlier about whirlpool immersion chillers and came across this website with detailed info on putting one together. one thing I'd probly do different though when I build mine is do what's been suggested and that's raise it up off the bottom. so you'd have a coil or two sitting on the very bottom, maybe with a half circle bent into one area so you can clear the hop blocker, and then the main coil pack would be up a bit farther.

 

[Maltose]

I was actually just reading another thread earlier about whirlpool immersion chillers and came across this website with detailed info on putting one together. one thing I'd probly do different though when I build mine is do what's been suggested and that's raise it up off the bottom. so you'd have a coil or two sitting on the very bottom, maybe with a half circle bent into one area so you can clear the hop blocker, and then the main coil pack would be up a bit farther.

like this? (of course longer coil for a bigger kettle)

 

[Retarded_Penguin_Brewing]

yup, just like that. take that design, cross it with the website design, and modify the base with an area to clear the hopblocker and i think that'd be the perfect whirlpool immersion chiller.

 

[Mob_Barley]

Here is what MoreBeer.com says about why they design their wort chillers this way:

A unique design feature of our Immersion Wort Chiller is that most of the coils are located towards the top. Because heat rises in your beer kettle having the coils located at the top significantly reduces cooling times.

I have a 26 gallon BK, which is pretty big. The IC will be on one side, and I plan on tapping the opposite side to put an outlet which will be connected to the HopBlocker. I plan on leaving the IC in the kettle until after the wort is drained to the fermenter so as not to disturb the trub cone. The HopBlocker will be against the side of the BK and hopefully far enough from the trub so it doesn't clog up.

 

[slakwhere]

i like the idea of legs on the IC to help flow at the bottom, but Jamil says he gets a great trub cone with a tight spiral of copper that touches the bottom of his pot.

 

[Retarded_Penguin_Brewing]

let us know how it works out for ya. I'm in the process of collecting pieces to go all grain when I get home(deployed in iraq) and I was looking at the 20 gallon blichmann with the hopblocker and then build the whirlpool immersion chiller like i described in the previous post

 

[Mob_Barley]

I haven't seen or heard Jamil talk about this...but I haven't been listening to his show lately. That's exactly what I wanted to know. I know that when I stir within the coils of the IC when cooling, the wort around the outside of the kettle still moves as if I were stirring the entire pot, and not just inside the coils. I was hoping this would be the case with the whirlpool jetting wort into the coils as well. But since I haven't seen it in action, I wasn't sure.

Thanks for the reply...

 

[slakwhere]

Jamil's page about chillers: http://www.mrmalty.com/chiller.php

it references this page, which is where i actually read that it works with a tight coil (wasn't jamil, sorry) http://www.wortomatic.com/php/articles.php?ID=11

 

[Mob_Barley]

Will do, and I"ll post some pics as well.

 

[Maltose]

what if instead of having a recirc arm come between the coils and recircing directly through the coils, just have a dedicated whirlpool port?

i'm not sure if the true efficiency of Jamil's whirlpool is due to direct contact with the coils or just the recirculation of the entire volume, as this would still keep movement in the kettle.

my plan is to have a pickup tube through my FB and recirculate through a 90* fitting on the inside of the kettle, maybe a few inches up (the best whirlpool should be achieved about 1/3 the way up the vessel.) i figure the wort will still be circulated and a better whirlpool will be achieved

i could also take the IC out after pitch temp and continue to recirc through this port for another 10-15 mins to get a more efficient whirlpool--i still think that having the IC in the kettle will create a bit of turbulence against the whirlpool action. thoughts?

 

[Retarded_Penguin_Brewing]

I forget who, but somebody on here has a setup like you are describing. It just comes back in against the wall of his keggle. I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I wonder if from a trub stand point that it is better to have tight coils and return wort back into the coils? That goes against what I said earlier, but I suppose it makes more sense because the coils would in effect become somewhat of a filter aiding in locating all your trub in the center.

 

[slakwhere]

the nice part of putting it on the IC is that there is no need to drill another hole in your kettle.

 

[Brewers Hardware]

Yea, but short of fabricating all that (which I can't even visualize), I'm wondering how well it works as designed? Are there any "simple" modifications that need to be made so the whirlpool not only helps with the cooling, but also builds a nice trub cone in the center of the BK?

Sorry for the late reply. I only used it once without the stand and I can't remember what the result was. I thought I'd taken notes, but I can't find them.

Sounds like there have been other good suggestions though.