whirl-pool idea

[andrewp]

I apologize if this has been brought up already but I had an idea and wanted to run it by the forum before trying this weekend.

I found that it takes my standard immersion chiller too long to cool and additional cooling ability of a whirlpool around the chiller seems to be a great solution. With pumps being as expensive as they, I think I have a gravity based solution to the brewer that wants to whirlpool without buying a pump.

My though was to convert a bottling bucket (or plastic brew bucket) into a separate whirlpool vessel. My immersion chiller would run inside the bucket as the hot wort runs from the spigot on my brew-kettle (gravity fed) into the bucket. I would direct from the kettle to be opposite of the chiller for increased cooling. The gravity fed flow, if start point is high enough, should develop at least a small whirlpool.

Additionally, this would give me the opportunity to do a whirlpool hopping.

I figured that a lot of commercial breweries are now doing the whirlpool in a separate vessel, why can't we? This is meant for 5 gal or smaller batches (my largest bucket is 7 g).

Has anyone run a similar set-up? Thoughts? Do I have to worry about the plastic bucket?

Thanks and happy brewing

 

[MalFet]

I'm not sure I understand. It's not actually recirculating, it's just draining once? You'll only get a few minutes of whirlpooling that way, and it won't be terribly strong. I can't see this working, but I might be completely misunderstanding what you are saying.

As a side note, whirlpool hoppings are typically done in hot whirlpools. If you are draining into a bucket with an active immersion chiller, I doubt you'll get much hop character.

 

[RchanceN]

I think I get what you're saying, but I'm also not sure how much of a whirlpool you could get going and I'd be nervous about draining near boiling wort into a plastic bucket.

I also don't want to buy a March pump so this is how I do it...
I whirlpool in the keggle for 10-15 minutes, adding any hops I want at the beginning, drain the wort through a 25ft IC that sits in a bucket of ice water with a small pond pump ($15 at Lowes) creating a whirlpool in the ice bucket. The wort exits directly into the carboy with an aeration stone running. The ice is usually gone a couple minutes minutes before the keggle is empty, but I end up with 66-68 degree wort in about 15 minutes doing a 5gallon batch.

I use the same cheap pond pump to circulate sanitizer through the IC for 5-10min before draining wort through it. Just make sure you let all the sanitizer solution drain through the coil into a bucket or on the ground before you put the exit hose into your carboy. Would suck to forget this and end up with a bunch of sanitizer in your brew. Almost did this once...

If anyone has a better idea without using expensive pumps, spill it.

 

[jfowler1]

It is a nice idea, and is a very small scale of what commercial breweries do, but it might be a little too small scale to be effective. The other issue is that on a commercial scale, they typically opt for a counterflow/plate chiller, and still use a pump to transfer from the secondary whirlpool vessel to the fermentor - enabling them to move wort without disturbing the trub their whirlpool created.

Pumps are expensive, but I think you need to have that constant controlled recirculation if you want to be able to do hot whirlpool flame out additions, then turn on your chiller during an active whirlpool for faster cooling, then allow ample time for the trub cone to form before gently emptying into your carboy/bucket. I use a pump, and that process takes me 50 minutes (20 minutes of whirlpool on/chiller off, 10 minutes of whirlpool on/chiller on, 20 minutes of whirlpool off/ chiller on).

Your idea of creating a gentle whirlpool in a bucket may be enough to generate a cone, but I think you will have to choose between a extended hot hop addition or rapid chilling. I don't think you will have the time and motion neccessary to do both. You also then need a way to transfer the wort from the bucket to the fermentor without disturbing the cone.

This is overly simple, but I think your best no pump option for acheiving a hot hop steep + the whirlpool chilling may simply be a large sanitized stainless spoon. After flameout, add your hops, give it a big stir, cover, and walk away for 20 minutes (or however long you want that hot steep to take place). Now turn on your chiller, give it another good stir with your sanitized spoon, once again cover, and walk away. In most groundwater situations, 20 minutes should be enough time for the whirlpool to settle into a cone while the immersion chiller gets you down to pitching temp. It isn't too fancy, but it is effective.

And for the sake of showing off a whirlpool immersion chiller - here is mine.

Joe

 

[andrewp]

The feedback and idea sharing is very much appreciated. Would draining from a spigot disturb the hop cone? Both my boil kettle and the bottling bucket I was planning on using for that set-up have a spigot.

My intentions were to never recirculate. Only to see if there was a way to add a step to a) whirlpool briefly b) aid in cooling.

RchanceN, is the immersion chiller that you use stainless or copper? I like the idea of running the wort through the chiller and I could easily make a second IC to accomplish this. With ground water being as hot as it is, figuring out chilling is always tough. I may try your set up this weekend.

 

[jfowler1]

At full flow, and in my experience, opening up a spigot will disturb the trub cone. It took me a try or two to figure that out.

Since I started just cracking the valve enough to generate a flow, I am no longer disturbing the cone. If I had to guess, I would say that I drain at about a 30% flow rate. It seems like the fluid just drains down, rather than the pressure of a fully opening valve draining "sideways".

Joe

 

[RchanceN]

My IC is stainless, which I like just for the durability, but copper may even chill a bit better. I open my 1/2" ball valve about half way when I first start draining and gradually open it more to keep the flow rate where I want it and the trub cone stays put.

And yes the hot ground water here in FL is pretty annoying for brewing. I'm super jealous of those who have 50 degree ground water on brew day...but I can surf fish year round so...

 

[andrewp]

thanks for the feedback everyone. i may try the IC in a ice buck method. happy brewing everyone

 

[bsdx]

My immersion chiller would run inside the bucket as the hot wort runs from the spigot on my brew-kettle (gravity fed) into the bucket. I would direct from the kettle to be opposite of the chiller for increased cooling. The gravity fed flow, if start point is high enough, should develop at least a small whirlpool.

I like that idea and I'm going to try it the next time I brew. I'm already doing the racking and chilling afterwards so it doesn't hurt me at all to run the IC while attempting to get a swirl going with the incoming wort. It may or may not help but doesn't really seem to negatively impact my process.

I would avoid having cooled unfermented wort into a bottling bucket because those spigots retain liquid and who knows what can be stuck in it, could be a source of infection.

 

[andrewp]

Thanks. I think I'm going to try that and a few of the others discussed here.

 

[Stuntman]

thanks for the feedback everyone. i may try the IC in a ice buck method. happy brewing everyone

I finally got my old Immersion Chiller on line as a Pre-Chiller. Yesterday the ground water was at 81 degrees, and it took forever to get it to eighty. Today I checked on You Tube, and in this one video, this lady stated that some people cool as far as they can with ground temp water, THEN use the ice to get it to pitching temp. I am trying that next. I only had enough ice to fill the bucket once (will try to have more ice on hand as well).

Kicking around the idea of Frozen bottles, I don't like the idea of sanitizing and throwing plastic into boiling water (or hot water). But I would entertain the idea of boiling water, cooling and putting it in sanitized plastic bottles to freeze then cut them open and drop the big bottle cubes into boiling wort. You would have to adjust the recipe for the late water addition. Just a thought.

 

[andrewp]

I tried the previously mentioned idea to drain hot wort through a 25 ft IC that is resting in a bucket of ice. Seemed to work fairly well minus a really slow flow rate. Also, you need A LOT of ice if you are going to try this. I did not have close to the right amount of ice for a 10g batch. Could work really well for smaller batches.

Moral of the story is that I had to run out the next morning to get the carboys cool enough to pitch. Pale ale is bubbling away nicely now.