Which yeast is your favorite dry yeast for making mead?
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andrewmaixner
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Ya, the data available for beer yeasts (attenuation, temperature range) does not often align with the data desired for wine/mead (K factor, nutrient needs).
Hopefully producers will start publishing that kind of info for everything as the lines continue to blur between beverage types.
My strategy in these cases is to monitor the odors, and add some Fermaid O when ever something smells off.
Not exactly scientific
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NeverDie
Well-Known Member
Ya, the data available for beer yeasts (attenuation, temperature range) does not often align with the data desired for wine/mead (K factor, nutrient needs).
Hopefully producers will start publishing that kind of info for everything as the lines continue to blur between beverage types.
My strategy in these cases is to monitor the odors, and add some Fermaid O when ever something smells off.
As a test strategy I've tried to start with more than enough nutrients to create a baseline that ferments without smelling sulfurous. So, I thought 2x the amount of wyeast wine nutrient blend, 2x the amount of potassium bicarbonate, 2x the amount of Fermaid-O, and 1x the amount of calcium chloride would provide that. But it went sulfurous anyway, until I bumped the potassium bicarbonate up to 4x and aerated, and then the sulfurous smell went away. So, that's why this morning I started a new test batch, with 4x the potassium bicarbonate up front, to see whether that is maybe a baseline that will ferment without going sulfurous. If so, then I plan to dial-back the variables progressively to figure out what the minimum amounts needed are. It's painstaking, but I can start about one new test batch a day, so it hopefully won't take too long to nail it down--provided I can find a working baseline to start with that can ferment all the way without going sulfurous. Keeping them at 95F means any given test batch can reach its second sugar break within about 48 hours, so that's about how long it takes to judge whether a test batch is in the clear or not.
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NeverDie
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What's already clear is that the more nitrogen I feed the yeast, the faster it ferments.
How much nitrogen is "optimal" then? Is it the minimum amount that will lead to complete fermentation without the yeast going sulfurous? Does it even matter if I add more Fermaid-O than that?
How much nitrogen is "optimal" then? Is it the minimum amount that will lead to complete fermentation without the yeast going sulfurous? Does it even matter if I add more Fermaid-O than that?
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NeverDie
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So.... I sampled the new 2 gallon D21 traditional mead, and it has an aroma similar to my earlier test batch of it. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of this yeast. I'll let it finish fermenting and then age it for 6 moths before sampling it again.
If someone else has better luck with it, please post the details of your recipe. Otherwise, at least for me, I think I have better options than D21.
If someone else has better luck with it, please post the details of your recipe. Otherwise, at least for me, I think I have better options than D21.
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NeverDie
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Anyhow, I think I'm at the end of the road for testing different yeast strains for a while now. For me, the winner is M05, for its great taste and ease-of-use, and the kveiks, for their runner-up taste and their ability to thrive at high summer temperatures. I could slice and dice the data more, but I doubt the final outcome would be any different.
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It'll be another month or so before my D21 traditional is ready to sample/adjust/bottle. I'll be sure to post my opinions then. But when I tasted it right out of the fermentor I didn't notice anything nasty about it.
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NeverDie
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Did you use D21 in a mead or a cider?
It's a mesquite traditional mead, about 11% ABV. My cyser is with the Fresco. That one's about clear enough now to backsweeten and put on oak.
Boden
Mad Scientist
I’m set on M05. Needs very little nutrition added, ferments clean. If going for high alcohol (above 12.5%) I add half the honey up front and add the rest around day 5.
Edit: I ferment mead at 67F
Edit: I ferment mead at 67F
Interesting to know would be what yeast M05 actually is, as MJ is known for repacking yeast from other bigger brands.
Boden
Mad Scientist
No idea who is growing M05. Best guess is it’s a cross between a Champagne yeast and 71B
Edit: I like 71B-1122 Narbonne for low alcohol mead.
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NeverDie
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I'm surprised 71B didn't turn out better than it did, given how popular it allegedly is with the professional mead makers. Nonetheless, I made two different test batches of 71B, and the results were similarly unimpressive. Therefore, I'm left wondering to what degree the BOMM nutrient regime I applied in the yeast roundup may have affected the final outcome and rankings. I'd need more guidance on how to optimize the handling and nutrient schedule for each yeast strain if I were to try this again.
Or, maybe it was the room temperature fermentations that threw things off from what's considered normal? I guess maybe that was it. Perhaps that's also why D21 twice didn't turn out well for me.
Or, maybe it was the room temperature fermentations that threw things off from what's considered normal? I guess maybe that was it. Perhaps that's also why D21 twice didn't turn out well for me.
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NeverDie
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I'm glad you're set on M05. As I have settled the same, at least now I have someone to compare notes with.
How did you pick it originally? For me, it was sheer luck that I happened across it while shopping for M31.
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NeverDie
Well-Known Member
What temperature did you ferment it at?
Just to throw one more (haha, ok... 8768768768756834 more) yeast in, I just tasted my wild ferment, which basically consists of honey and water. It is SO SO interesting. It is not done fermenting but already tastes a bit like leather/honey/pepper/spicy/brett/more stuff. Never had such a complex mead. I am quite aware that this will take probably at least one more year or even two or three to mature to it's fullest, but it really goes beyond what honey can do on its own with a clean mead yeast. It also looks funky, some floaties developed and now that I added some scottish heather honey, which started to ferment on it's own in the glass, the whole thing started foaming again. I also added CaCl for about 100ppm Ca, just to make it flock out easier... well... let's see
Boden
Mad Scientist
How did I pick it.... (looks wistfully off into the distance)
One day long ago I was pointlessly wandering around the local brew shop. There, in the corner a light caught my eye. What’s this I ask myself. Alas, it’s a fridge, with yeast in it. (ode to joy playing in the background) I stood there in awe at all the packets. Then a little voice in my head said “Let’s make some sipping mead” and right there on the top shelf was a packet that said Mead Yeast. Could this be the one... I shouted across the shop “Will this M05 go to 18%?” A yes came back through the mist (They were milling grain and it was very dusty). I thought to myself, that’ll do.
Touching story, no
Boden
Mad Scientist
For the love of Dog, do not use wild Austin yeast.
That’s how you catch hipster. Next thing you know you’re sporting a mustache and wearing pantaloons.
It’s not a good look.
That’s how you catch hipster. Next thing you know you’re sporting a mustache and wearing pantaloons.
It’s not a good look.
59-60°F, the bottom of its range. That'll be the difference in our results.
Will he also be waiting in line for hours to get some brisket at Franklin's BBQ?
Boden
Mad Scientist
*eyes twitching*
Don’t get me started on the abomination that is Texas grilled meat.
(Edit: removed vulgar rant that would have offended R Lee Ermey.)
If you are not cooking the critter whole on a spit or buried in the ground it's not BBQ.
If it’s cut up and cooked on a metal grate it’s grilled.
Sorry about the off topic. I’m done.
Just for giggles, I took a sniff of my D21 traditional that's oaking now. It smells heavenly.
Temperature matters. I don't know what criteria yeast makers use to specify the ideal range of their products, but I do know that they all behave differently at different temps and in my experience colder is usually better.
Some examples that I can cite - D47 is listed as 59-68° and I know it throws fusels above 65. Cote Des Blancs is 50-80° and one of our cider makers uses it at 45° and makes great cider. Fermentis S-04 at 60° finishes at 1.004 and at 68° goes dry, below 1.000.
Bottom line - for me- is that temperature control is an important part of brewing. That's where the next investment in my hobby will be.
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NeverDie
Well-Known Member
Probably for me too. The evidence is now abundant that at room temeprature the vast majority of yeast strains produce off flavors and aromas. M05 and the Kveiks seem to be the exceptions.
Which approach do you think you'll take? Put the carboy inside a dedicated refrigerator or freezer with a thermowell and an inkbird controller?
Or one of those peltier thermoelectric things that wraps around the carboy and that can both heat and cool?
Or, ....?
Also, temperature matters during the initial fermentation, but what about later? After fermentation is done, is it OK to then move the mead to a room temperature environment for aging, or will that throw a wrench in the works? If it has to be temperature controlled throughout, that tends to limit how much can be done in parallel without a lot of duplicate temperature control systems.
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'Zactly.. or.
Maybe one of these:
https://brewjacket.com/products/imm...MIjerM3OOE4gIVg47ICh2eWwBuEAQYASABEgKg8fD_BwE
Haven't decided yet. One of those heater blankets for sure, I need to be able to bring 60° must to 70° when pitching yeast (it gets cold here - this winter was brutal). I also need to hold 60-65 when fermenting in years when it's not so cold. This is a fall/winter hobby for me so summer temps don't have to be considered. I see a small chest freezer for sale on Craigs List, by a brewer who's moving. There's also swamp cooler options. And being an engineer I can't stop myself from drawing up plans for circulating tanks and temp controllers. Space is at a premium though, and I do everything from 1 to 6 gallon batches. Need to be creative and make something that's versatile.
Spring is coming and my hobby choices are about to change. Other than letting what's in process finish up and get bottled I think I'm done 'till October, then I'll make my choices.
Boden
Mad Scientist
What about a Peltier cooler/ heater plate under the fermenter. Temp probe on the side going to a controller. Fermenter wrapped in thermal blanket. Edit: I see you’ve already thought of that. Never mind.
Just woke up. Words no work good yet
Suppose a water jacket, fish tank heater /cooler setup would be cheaper.
I just isolate the room from the house and control the temp of the whole room. Window unit and electric oil radiator.
Just woke up. Words no work good yet
Suppose a water jacket, fish tank heater /cooler setup would be cheaper.
I just isolate the room from the house and control the temp of the whole room. Window unit and electric oil radiator.
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NeverDie
Well-Known Member
Try some Kveik over the summer. They seem able to handle room temperature up to pretty hot, so if you have a niche in your living space, or maybe even your garage, they'll be happy.
I'm presently on my sixth iteration for the Hornindal nutrient regime. The latest one includes opti-white.
The next iteration will add some ascorbic acid, and I expect the final iteration will include bentonite. So, almost there. Already avoiding sulfurous emissions.
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Lefou
Danged rascally furt
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NeverDie,
I might not have caught it but how much ascorbic acid was used per gallon as your anti-oxidant? With wine it's typically 1/8th tsp per gallon. Was it noticed in your sensory test?
I was pushing around the thought of using it as a possible bottling additive in fruited or more highly carbed beers where the acidity wouldn't be so obvious.
I might not have caught it but how much ascorbic acid was used per gallon as your anti-oxidant? With wine it's typically 1/8th tsp per gallon. Was it noticed in your sensory test?
I was pushing around the thought of using it as a possible bottling additive in fruited or more highly carbed beers where the acidity wouldn't be so obvious.
Lefou
Danged rascally furt
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The reason I'm asking is there is an older HBA forum thread on the notion of using acid not only for pH adjustment but as an anti-oxidant. One of the commenters was/is a certified BJCP judge.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=22380.15
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=22380.15
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NeverDie
Well-Known Member
I'm using it as an anti-oxidant, and so I'm just sticking with the 1/8tsp per gallon directions that are printed on the packaging. I doubt such a small amount will have any sensory effect.
Is there such thing as a water jacket that you can wrap around a bucket/carboy? I've seen insulated bags for ice but there's no way to control them.
My basement brew room has a window and I could theoretically use one of those "portable" AC units, but I need to get down to the low 60's and that'd be a huge waste of electricity. I did pick up an oil radiator this winter and it helped, but again, I'd prefer to heat the bucket not the room. More efficient and better control.
Not going down that path. I might however make a JAOM, and our friend Fleischmann’s is perfectly happy in summer temps
Not going down that path. I might however make a JAOM, and our friend Fleischmann’s is perfectly happy in summer temps
I think, based on the preliminary results of this thread and based on the fact that it can be dried on baking paper and pretty much used as often as one wants, Voss kveik should be an accelent candidate for mead, summer temperatures or not.
Boden
Mad Scientist
A bigger bucket to set the carboy/bucket into.
Pump the chilled water into the water bucket, have a hole drilled into it at the drain height with a hose attached to return the water to the chiller reservoir.
Hydroponic shops have all kinds of gear to do this kind of thing.
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NeverDie
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What is the procedure for drying it exactly? Do I just smear it on baking paper and put in a food dehydrator or something? I have a jar of the Hornindal yeast cake leftover from the original fermentation. Not sure if that's necessarily a good candidate for drying or not, but, if so, I could give it a try.
Boden
Mad Scientist
I fixed my comment #514. I’m blaming allergies.
Blacksmith1
Captain Cheap
Would.that be an allergy to alcohol?
Boden
Mad Scientist
Nope, grass.
Yes, just smear it thinly on the paper and let it air dry. No dehydrator necessary, raised temperature might even damage the yeast.
But I guess that horni is a bit of a not so good mead yeast, given its extensive hunger for nutes. Voss seems to be much easier to handle.
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NeverDie
Well-Known Member
It's just a matter of feeding Hornindal the nutes it needs, which, granted, do appear to be a lot more than demanded by most other yeast strains.
But, yes, both Voss and Hothead seem easier.
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