Where to have more BTU's BK or HLT?

[Mellman]

So I'm in the early stages of putting together my electric setup and trying to give myself the efficiency justification of electric vs propane.


I'll have 100-125A service in my brew shed, and anticipate using 2 5500w elements in one kettle and 5500 in another. Given the HLT will have to largest variance to heat (and, in situations of step mashes i ideally want the fastest response to temp increases) i presume I should put the 2 elements in the HLT and just use a single in the BK?

For example taking my tap water to strike temp (50* -> 180*) would take around 20 minutes with 2 elements. With 1 element it'll be slightly over 40. Using propane id be looking at well over 30 minutes.

On the other hand, sparging to boil the wort is already at say a conservative 110*, but I can also be heating what is in the BK while i'm sparging so if it takes longer to heat - it doesn't matter as much because you're already waiting for your sparge to finish anyways.

Is my thought process correct?

Threw together this spreadsheet, the blue fields are for input - the rest are editable but they're all formulas. not sure how to just restrict a few fields on google docs...but feel free to either fix any errors or use for your curiosity.

http://goo.gl/hkKj5

 

[Nanobru]

go with gas. Its easier to use and clean. Plus you get to play with fire. If you do go elektrk, I would use the two elements in the kettle, the more rolling of a boil, the better.

 

[JRems]

How large are your kettles?

 

[mabrungard]

Don't even think about gas, its a waste of time. I'm thoroughly impressed with how fast electric heating works. I've cut my heating time almost in half since I went with single 5500w elements in my kettle and HLT.

It obviously depends on the size of the vessels as to putting one or two elements in. I've seen other calculator programs and I agree with the results for heating time. I'd say its your call as to if you need the more rapid heating capability. The good thing about putting two elements in the kettle is that you are reducing the energy density imposed on the wort (assuming you are using a PWM to modulate the heating activity). That helps reduce any possibility of scorching.

 

[Mellman]

right now i've got a 30G Blichmann I was planning to use as my BK. I'll have a 55g MLT, and probably a 30-45g HLT. I may use the current 30G as the HLT and go with a 45g BK, figure it's easier to just buy it now than deal with going to a larger vessel later.

I use gas now. Nat Gas is out of the question, propane is too expensive and incredibly inefficient. I'll be brewing in an enclosed area, i don't really want to have to deal with worrying about venting the CO. Plus i really like the easy control of setting the temp and letting the pid/element do the work to keep it there. I realize i can do that with gas but it's just a bit more difficult and has more things to worry about.

Gas for me now is just a pain without the control - i'm frequently overshooting my sparge temps, so i have to either add cold water or wait for it to cool down, or in the winter(or worse, wind) i'm waiting forever for it to heat up and it's just adding too much time to my brew day, especially when i do 3-4 10+g batches in a day.

The only thing I may do with gas would be a flash boiler and turn the HLT into another BK. But to get going i'll probably just do a typical setup.

mabrungard - what burners and kettles were you using prior to going electric?

what's the biggest batch a 5500w element will be able to keep at a rolling boil?

 

[erikrocks]

I do 15 gallon batches (18+ preboil in a Blichman 20gal BK) and I get a beautiful rolling boil with no threat of boilover from a single 5500w element (fed from a 220v 30a breaker/spa panel) .

If you go with two elements in the BK, you're going to need a 60 amp breaker running at 220v (11000w/220v=50amp). I can't see how you could do this from a 120v outlet.

 

[Sebas83]

+1 on the power rating. Blowing breakers is more annoying than using gas.

With a boil, 212 degrees is 212 degrees. Whether its crazy rolling or not is null. With more roll, you just lose more volume. You just to make sure the wort is circulating.

 

[Mellman]

+1 on the power rating. Blowing breakers is more annoying than using gas.

With a boil, 212 degrees is 212 degrees. Whether its crazy rolling or not is null. With more roll, you just lose more volume. You just to make sure the wort is circulating.

yea not worried about power, like i said i'll have 100-125A service in the brew shed, anticipate the ability to run all 3 elements at once for multi brew days.

maybe i'll look at 2 4500w in the BK and 2 5500 in the HLT, should put me at roughly 90-100A, so 125A service should be perfect to give me a 20A circuit for lights and 2 pumps.

 

[mabrungard]

15 gal aluminum kettle, so I had the best possible heat transfer into the wort from the burner. My burner was one of the small porcupine-looking ring shaped units with the brass jets pointing out at all directions. It is a nice unit and it was running on propane.

I typically was boiling 6 to 7 gal and sometimes 11 or 12 gal.

Now that I've gone electric, that aluminum pot is a detriment since it transfers heat better than SST. I'll be creating some sort of insulating jacket for the pot to reduce heat loss.

 

[Nanobru]

With a boil, 212 degrees is 212 degrees. Whether its crazy rolling or not is null. With more roll, you just lose more volume. You just to make sure the wort is circulating.

I disagree. A "crazy rolling boil" helps break out proteins, creates the mechanical energy and heat necessary to isomerize Alpha Acids from hops, and "losing" volume is the name of the game. You need to think of it in terms of wort concentration, not losing precious beer. The boil is soo much more than a circulation tool as sebas83 suggests.

 

[erikrocks]

yea not worried about power, like i said i'll have 100-125A service in the brew shed, anticipate the ability to run all 3 elements at once for multi brew days.

maybe i'll look at 2 4500w in the BK and 2 5500 in the HLT, should put me at roughly 90-100A, so 125A service should be perfect to give me a 20A circuit for lights and 2 pumps.

Ah, sorry. I read your first post and thought you mean 100-125 VOLT service. Yeah, if you have 100 amps in your brewhouse, you're golden.

 

[Mellman]

agreed, i've always been a proponent of a nice healthy rolling boil when home brewing. Anytime i visit a professional brewery their giant BK's are doing a SERIOUS rolling boil, never seen one just sorta simmering

it's why i'm not sure a single 5500w element will be enough for a 20 gallon batch (25g+ starting boil)

 

[erikrocks]

If you have the power, why not go 5500+4500 in both BK and HLT? You can always fire the elements at 70% or so if you don't need full power.

 

[Berniep]

Where I live the cost of brewing a batch using electric is about 1/3 to 1/4 that of propane. Electric is faster and I can be inside warm and dry or cool and bug free.

 

[Mellman]

If you have the power, why not go 5500+4500 in both BK and HLT? You can always fire the elements at 70% or so if you don't need full power.

yeah i may end up doing just that. 10kw per kettle just shy of 35000 BTU's I like it.

Thanks everyone!