New K-RIMS System question

[astropixel]

Hi All,
I'm new to all-grain brewing, but already caught the electric bug. I've got a a 3-vessel system consisting of a 10 gallon Megapot, a 15 gallon SS Brewtech pot, a 10G Igloo Mash Tun and 1 pump, curently using propane burners.

I settled on a 2-vessel K-RIMS setup with only the boil kettle heated, so I need advise on 2 issues.
Oh, I plan to brew 6-7 gallon batches and maybe a 10 gallon batch, who knows.

1) Which pot should I put the 5,500W heating element in and which pot gets the Blichmann Autosparge? I've got a 1.5" TC weldless bulkhead for the heating element and just need to position the hole for the Autosparge.

2) To accommodate a typical 5-7 gallon batch and occasional a 10 gallon batch, where should I mount the Autosparge? The 10G pot is 14" and the 15G kettle is ~15 5/8" in diameter. It looks like I'd need to use the 15G pot to use the 9" extended arm with the Autosparge, but I have no idea if that would be the right thing to do in my case.

Cheers

 

[Bobby_M]

If you have to use what you have, and you want 10g batches, you really have no choice. The 15 has to be the boil kettle because you can't boil a 10 gallon batch in a 10G pot.

The 10 will be the mash tun with the autosparge mounted at the top.

With only one pump, you'll have to use gravity from the mash tun to the boil kettle.


It's obviously open to debate and people have their varying opinions, but if you're doing 6/7 gallon batches there is very little reason to K-RIMS when you can put a false bottom and bag directly into the 15 gallon boil kettle.

With this combo of gear you have, I would agree that a 10G batch would have to be split into a K-RIMS setup. I guess you have to decide how important 10 gallon batches are.

 

[astropixel]

Thanks for the quick comment Bobby.
It was easy to jump to a conclusion about the K-RIMS setup, but it won't hurt to work up to that, if it even ends up being what really works for me. I'm also not averse to swapping out the 10G kettle, but I think it's pretty safe if I really stick to the 6/7G batches.

After only one comment, it makes sense do this in phases, not to mention being easier on the budget. I'll start with just electrifying the 15G kettle and start experimenting with configurations. I've seen a lot about BIB, so that's probably worth a shot as well.

 

[Bobby_M]

I guess I might as well elaborate just a bit on the point I was trying to make.

A K-RIMS is a no-sparge, full volume mash system where the total mash liquor is split between the passive mashing vessel (where the grain is) and the active heat vessel (the boil kettle). The temp control/ramping happens in the boil kettle and it's reintroduced into the mash. The whole system maintains an average mash temperature somewhere between the boil kettle and mash and both vessels are bleeding some heat the whole time. At the end of the mash, all the wort is drained to the boil kettle while you stop pumping it back into the mash. Generally the listed advantage to this system is that the wort in the boil is as clear as it would be on a traditional 3 vessel system because it's well filtered in the recirculation. It also doesn't require lifting a grain bag/basket which may be a deal breaker for some reason. The downside is that it's the least efficient brewing system of all types.

If you move that whole process to a single vessel (BIAB), it's almost exactly the same thing but think of the two vessels as "zones" in the same kettle.
The first three inches at the bottom of the kettle is the "RIMS" where the mash liquor is heated. Above that is a false bottom and bag containing the grain. The heat delta is a little tighter in this system because the heated zone is in direct contact with the passive zone and the single vessel sheds less heat than two. One pump is enough and no gravity flows needed. This has faster temp ramps than K-RIMS and you could argue that a bag is a little easier to clean than a mash tun, but maybe just a bit. It's comparatively more efficient, but only a little, because you can recover more wort by squeezing the bag. One could argue that the wort clarity suffers if you squeeze the bag, but no one has ever objectively proven that it makes a difference in the final beer. An overhead lifting point is generally required for this process, but not difficult to implement. A grain basket is also common, but I like bags better.

There is enough room in a 15g kettle for any gravity 6 gallon batch.

 

[astropixel]

Thanks for more detail.
I just need to do more reading, but I have never understood why K-RIMS is not efficient. It seems like it should be a lot more efficient than BIAB since you seem to be continuously sparging.
At worst, it seems like you could heat the 'strike water' up in the boil kettle and pump half into the mash tun, let it mash for some time and then circulate the remaining water in the boil kettle, effectively sparging. Of course, you lose the whole goal of temperature control during the mash.
Then again, efficiency isn't everything and you can compensate with more grain.

 

[Bobby_M]

Thanks for more detail.
I just need to do more reading, but I have never understood why K-RIMS is not efficient. It seems like it should be a lot more efficient than BIAB since you seem to be continuously sparging.
At worst, it seems like you could heat the 'strike water' up in the boil kettle and pump half into the mash tun, let it mash for some time and then circulate the remaining water in the boil kettle, effectively sparging. Of course, you lose the whole goal of temperature control during the mash.
Then again, efficiency isn't everything and you can compensate with more grain.

That's not sparging, it's recirculation. Every drop of liquid in both methods end up being the same gravity. The difference in efficiency amounts to how much of that liquid stays in the grain vs what drains away. In a K-RIMS the static nature of the grain bed keeps more liquid trapped via surface tension. In a bag, even just the suspension of the bag drains more wort away than gravity draining a mash tun, but a gentle squeeze does a lot more.

I'm not an efficiency chaser by any means. I'm just listing some of differences of the two full volume mashing systems and you can form your own pro and con list based on your desires. I'm firmly team BIAB not for the slight efficiency difference but for the temp stability, ramp speed, and simplicity.

 

[Bago-0]

Bobby described it perfectly. I have a Blichmann Breweasy K-RIMS and have gone back and forth with it and BIAB. I think its just a matter of preference. I use the K-RIMS setup more often just because I have it dialed in, I started with it and have the equipment. Cleanup time is not a big difference to me. I adjust for the efficiency with a little more grain. I don't really notice any big difference in beer quality either way. With the bag the only consideration is your heating element and can the bag sit on it or do you need a stand to keep it off the element.

 

[SonomaBrewer]

I have a 15G Spike Solo and a 20G InfuSSion mash tun. Configure as a K-RIMS only when I want a high-gravity (1075+) 7.5G batch.

Have found that I just can't fit a big 25 pound grain bill (even as a thick mash) in the Solo with the efficiencies that I need to hit OG for 9-10 gallon preboil volume (even using the "dual recirc" approach that Bobby has previously described to maximize my BiAB efficiency).

But for lower gravities <1075, I find setup and cleanup much easier using single vessel. Also get the benefit of vorlauf and clearer wort prior to the boil by continuous recirc over the bag of grain. I did give up on the Spike basket for all but the lowerst gravity beers I make, as I have found that I am able to get better efficiency with a plain old bag (mostly so that I can hit higher preboil volume at the same gravity).

 

[k-daddy]

I had a 2 vessel, K-RIMS setup for years (autosparge, 2 pumps, multiple valves, lots of tubing, etc.). In 2022, I switched to a single vessel BIAB. While I enjoyed brewing on the 2 vessel system, with the more involved, intricate process, I am much happier with a BIAB setup. End product is just as good, less equipment, smaller footprint, single pump and faster cleanup.

 

[Broken Crow]

I don't have enough experience to comment on how to best configure what you have, but;

not to mention being easier on the budget. I'll start with just electrifying the 15G kettle and start experimenting with configurations.

.....trying out options, I do have experince with; If you think you may wish to swap out your kettle at some point, then before you punch a hole in your kettle consider using a TC bulkhead for your element so you can more easily swap it out to a new kettle in future.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/etc4wl.htm

 

[Genuine]

Here's my system - I have the element in the kettle (Vessel to the left) and I gravity drain from the mash tun to help with compacting. I got a new false bottom last year from NorCal Brewing Solutions and it's been great.