Where to attach neutral on 240v outlet

[Brewmegoodbeer]

I need help! If there is anyone on here with electrical knowledge please help. I had an electrician install a double pole 30 amp 240v breaker in my garage for a controller that runs 240v elements and 120v pump. Looking at it, he ran 2 hot wires and a ground wire. Is there a need for a neutral since this controller runs both 120v and 240v receptacles?? If so, how do I run a neutral on an l6-30 outlet. Its a three prong outlet but needs 4 wires in this case (2 hot, ground, neutal)?? Im really confused.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'd add a separate 120V feed from a regular 120V GFCI socket to your controller panel for powering your 120V equipment and call it a day. That may be the easiest.

In your current installation, for a neutral (to get 120V) you'd need 4 conductors in your main (240V) connection wiring and an L14-30R receptacle (for a 4 wire connection).

The strangest thing is, new "dryer" circuit installations, like yours, should be a 4-conductor wire by national code, which includes a dedicated neutral, so the ground wire doesn't carry any current.

 

[IslandLizard]

BTW, does the 30A double pole breaker that got installed have GFCI protection?
This is visible by a white curly pigtail wire coming from the breaker connected to the ground bus.

It should if you're using the circuit in your brewery!

 

[processhead]

It sounds like the electrician may not have been aware you needed 120 volts in your brew panel.
A competent electrician would have run the fourth conductor and the appropriate receptacle for a four prong plug. As IslandLizard said, you really need the GFCI protection for a brew panel.

 

[Elfmaze]

FWIT, you will also get 120v between any of the hot legs and ground ... for instance on my house panel(not sure if its to code, edit I re read it and it CAN join ground and neutral at the main panel just not a sub panel(I'm not an electrition) but the neutrals and grounds all join together at the breaker panel anyway. but I think the neutral wire in the cable might be a slightly heavier gauge i ran 50amp.

 

[Bobby_M]

It sounds like a major communication breakdown to me. How did you define your needs? What did the written quote say he was going to do? There's a big difference between asking for a 30amp/240v circuit and a 30amp 240/120 volt.

A 240v circuit is 3 wires, Hot L1, Hot L2, and Ground. You can't get 120 volts on that circuit without a neutral.

A 240v/120v circuit is 4 wires. You can get 240v between the two hots. You can get 120v between one of the hots and a neutral. The ground is used for equipment grounding in both cases.

It's always best (for other people viewing this thread) to tell the electrician what NEMA receptacle you want where. If you specified a 14-30R, you'd get 4 wire.

It's getting a little more complex with different controllers needing different plug types. The Blichmann brew commander 240v unit needs to be supplied by separate 240v and 120v input lines. It needs an L6-30R which is hot, hot, ground and also a 5-15R for the 120v pump input. If you want to supply that with a single new circuit, you'd have a 4 wire run from the main panel and then break it out in your receptacle box. Personally, I'd just rewire the commander to have a 4-wire plug (NEMA 14-30P).

 

[processhead]

FWIT, you will also get 120v between any of the hot legs and ground ... for instance on my house panel(not sure if its to code, edit I re read it and it CAN join ground and neutral at the main panel just not a sub panel(I'm not an electrition) but the neutrals and grounds all join together at the breaker panel anyway. but I think the neutral wire in the cable might be a slightly heavier gauge i ran 50amp.

Yes, you will measure 120 volts between either hot leg and ground, but it would be a code violation in this application. The ground can't be used as a current carrying conductor, except during a fault condition where either hot leg shorted to ground would then trip the breaker.

 

[Bobby_M]

Yes, you will measure 120 volts between either hot leg and ground, but it would be a code violation in this application. The ground can't be used as a current carrying conductor, except during a fault condition where either hot leg shorted to ground would then trip the breaker.

Not to mention you wouldn't be able to use a GFCI breaker in this case either. As soon as any current runs over the ground... trip.

 

[Elfmaze]

Not to mention you wouldn't be able to use a GFCI breaker in this case either. As soon as any current runs over the ground... trip.

good to know! By the way good to see your still around Bobby. You were around when I was still back in Jersey over ten years ago now