When do you start temperature control?

[Ali01]

Fermentis says rehydrate the yeast at 26c
But the ideal temperature is 18-20c
So when should I put the fermenter in temperature controller? Should I wait for the bubbling so start? Or should I get it down to 18-20c right after pitching?

 

[RM-MN]

Rehydrating the yeast is a special case where the warmer water rehydrates faster.

I try to bring the wort below the recommended range by a degree or 2 before pitching the yeast knowing that when the yeast get started they will warm the beer a bit, putting the beer temp in the preferred range. Usually keeping the beer at the cool end of the range will get you a cleaner beer.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

I agree with @RM-MN, start fermentation at the low end of the temp range. The yeast will raise the temp during active fermentation.
I don't do the rehydration part, I just pitch into the cool wort and let it do its thing. There are others who will say you need to rehydrate, but I've always had good results pitching it dry.

 

[IslandLizard]

These instructions were copied from a 2013 and a 2016 publication (respectively). I couldn't find anything more recent...
I've been using the "2013" rehydration method since 2008 when I started brewing. Key being: sprinkle onto the water surface and let sit for 15-30 minutes. Mind, no stirring! By that time most of the granules have become wet or the yeast has sank to the bottom. These instructions line up with pitching the dry yeast granules onto the wort directly, by sprinkling them over the surface, without pre-hydration.

I understand that in commercial applications when pitching large quantities of dry yeast (e.g. a one-pound brick), stirring is probably needed from the get-go, which the 2016 instructions suggest.

2013 Rehydration instructions:
Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 27°C ± 3°C (80°F ± 6°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes. Gently stir for 30 minutes, and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.

Alternatively, pitch the yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20°C (68°F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes, then mix the wort using aeration or by wort addition.

2016 Pitching instructions:
Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C ± 3C (80F ± 6F). Once the expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to 30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.

Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration.

Fermentation temperature: Recommended fermentation temperature: 15C – 24C (59-75F).

 

[tracer bullet]

Recommended reading, in my opinion:

https://www.calameo.com/fermentis/read/006283727c66d91d6d47c?view=slide&page=1
Start at page 19 for this subject. Reads as very much RDWHAHB to me.

 

[IslandLizard]

Recommended reading, in my opinion:

https://www.calameo.com/fermentis/read/006283727c66d91d6d47c?view=slide&page=1

Nice score, there!
And thanks for sharing. I've never seen it before...

 

[redrocker652002]

I may be misreading the OP, but for me, I cool my fermenting fridge down to the middle of the recommended range of the yeast before I put the bucket in. So, to answer what I think is your question, my fermenting fridge is ready to go at the midrange of the yeast when I put my fermenting bucket in it. I hope that is what you were asking. LOL

 

[Ali01]

I may be misreading the OP, but for me, I cool my fermenting fridge down to the middle of the recommended range of the yeast before I put the bucket in. So, to answer what I think is your question, my fermenting fridge is ready to go at the midrange of the yeast when I put my fermenting bucket in it. I hope that is what you were asking. LOL

That's exactly what I wanted to know
And could you please tell me at what temp you pitch the yeast? Higher than the optimum range? Or in the middle of the range of...

 

[hotbeer]

You'll note that fermentis also recommends just direct pitching the yeast to the wort. That's what I've always done. Never had any beer not ferment.

I pitch the dry yeast at the temp I keep my FV. Usually about 20°C (68°F).

From one of your other thread it seems like you expect things to happen fast. It doesn't. So give it time. 18 - 24 hours and maybe you'll see something if you aren't asleep and miss it.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

fermentis [...] recommends just direct pitching the yeast

As does Lallemand (link) ...

... although there's that Zymurgy Live (Aug 25, 2023) presentation with some interesting observations (that I haven't had made to follow-up on).

 

[Ali01]

You'll note that fermentis also recommends just direct pitching the yeast to the wort. That's what I've always done. Never had any beer not ferment.

I pitch the dry yeast at the temp I keep my FV. Usually about 20°C (68°F).

From one of your other thread it seems like you expect things to happen fast. It doesn't. So give it time. 18 - 24 hours and maybe you'll see something if you aren't asleep and miss it.

Thanks for the tip
Yeah I'm a bit in a rush haha
But I'll wait for a good beer

I just thought it had something to do with the yeast getting rehydrated better and healthier at 26c since it's what fermentis suggests we do
The idea is to rehydrate it at 26c then chill the wort to the fermentation temperature, in my case, 17-18c, right?

 

[hotbeer]

The idea is to rehydrate it at 26c then chill the wort to the fermentation temperature, in my case, 17-18c, right?

This is what Fermentis recommends for US-05, US-04, T-58 and likely most of it's ale yeat.

With prior rehydration
Alternatively, sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or boiled and hopped wort at 25 to
29°C (77°F to 84°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes, gently stir and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation
vessel.

SafAle™ T-58
That temp specified above is just for the liquid used to rehydrate. As for the temp of the wort in the FV when you pitch, it probably can be the same temp, the temp you wish to ferment it at or a lower temp. Assuming it's not at the temp you wish to keep it at while fermenting, then you will likely be cooling it to or letting it warm up to that ferment temp in a short time compared to how long it'll be fermenting. So I doubt it makes a big difference. If it does then that's where your experiences and craftsmanship or artistry as a brewer come to bear. There isn't one totally right way.

I direct pitch, always have. So I don't know if there are any benefits or if there are other ways to rehydrate and do it more right than what maker suggests. Note that rehydration is different than the things some people do to build up the number of viable yeast cells. So don't confuse that for simple rehydration if you read about other's that have their yeast on a stir plate for quite a time.

 

[IslandLizard]

I just thought it had something to do with the yeast getting rehydrated better and healthier at 26c since it's what fermentis suggests we do

26°C (27°C ± 3°C actually) is the recommended temp for rehydrating their dried yeast, prior to pitching. Not the temp of the wort you'd be pitching the resulting "cream" (rehydrated yeast slurry) into.

The idea is to rehydrate it at 26c then chill the wort to the fermentation temperature, in my case, 17-18c, right?

You'd be rehydrating the dry yeast in a little tap water ~10x the weight of the yeast you're adding. This water is at 26°C.
When it's done rehydrating, you then chill the resulting "cream" (yeast slurry) to within 10°C from the temp of the wort (the batch) you're pitching into. This is to prevent temperature-shocking the yeast.

17-18°C (~63-64°F) is a good temp to start your US-05 fermentation, yes. Once it gets going it may end up being a couple degrees higher, that's fine. That's where your temp controlled ferm chamber gets to work to keep it cool and doesn't go higher and higher.

As others said, it's not necessary to re-hydrate the dried yeast prior to pitching. Just sprinkling the dry yeast granules onto the wort surface is fine, and is the method actually recommended by the dry yeast manufacturers the past 5-10 years.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

FWIW, MJ seems to prefer re-hydration over pitching dry: https://help.mangrovejacks.com/hc/en-us/articles/360019111174-Yeast-strain-information . From page 5 of the embedded document on that web page.

eta: could it be that the 'best practices' for using active dry yeast is brand (maybe SKU) specific.

 

[mashdar]

I suppose it's clear at this point, but just to explicitly state it: the rehydration step would be with water* prior to adding yeast to the fermentor.

(edit: so the rehydration and pitch temperature can differ)

Many people pitch dry directly into fermentor with no ill effects. My understanding is you may get slightly better yeast viability by rehydrating first.

*Water should be sanitized by boiling and then cooled. I have a faint memory that distilled water can cause other issues, and that tap water is actually preferable, but it's been a long time and I could be nuts.

 

[IslandLizard]

FWIW, MJ seems to prefer re-hydration over pitching dry

Oh, I wasn't aware of MJ not hopping onto the sprinkling dry bandwagon!
Thanks for the update!

eta: could it be that the 'best practices' for using active dry yeast is brand (maybe SKU) specific.

Yeah, that's a good question.
I can't see a pro brewer sprinkling one or more bricks of dry yeast onto the wort surface from the top hatch of the fermenter. And then 30' later rouse it a few times to mix it all in... I have to ask now.

You probably know my stance on sprinkling dry vs. rehydration.
I suspect what made that change happen (so suddenly) 5-10 years ago: It's much easier, removing any potential barriers to using dry yeast.

 

[IslandLizard]

I suppose it's clear at this point, but just to explicitly state it: the rehydration step would be with water* prior to adding yeast to the fermentor.

(edit: so the rehydration and pitch temperature can differ)

Many people pitch dry directly into fermentor with no ill effects. My understanding is you may get slightly better yeast viability by rehydrating first.

*Water should be sanitized by boiling and then cooled. I have a faint memory that distilled water can cause other issues, and that tap water is actually preferable, but it's been a long time and I could be nuts.

You're spot on, and not nuts.
The rehydration water not being RO or distilled water, IIRC, it's because the lack of minerals could potentially harm the yeast (due to osmosis, perhaps).

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

You probably know my stance on sprinkling dry vs. rehydration.

I do.

 

[mac_1103]

You don't have to rehydrate in water:

Alternatively, sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or boiled and hopped wort at 25 to 29°C (77°F to 84°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes, gently stir and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.

So if it's easier, you can just take a few ounces of wort at the end of the boil and cool that to rehydration temperature to make your slurry while you're chilling the rest of the wort.

 

[mashdar]

You don't have to rehydrate in water:

Alternatively, sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or boiled and hopped wort at 25 to 29°C (77°F to 84°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes, gently stir and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.

So if it's easier, you can just take a few ounces of wort at the end of the boil and cool that to rehydration temperature to make your slurry while you're chilling the rest of the wort.

I was under the impression there was some issue of osmotic pressure when rehydrating in wort, but again, I'm working on hazy memory. Is that quote from a yeast lab?

edit: hmm. this seems to agree that wort is OK if warmed up to 30C. (not sure where they got 30C)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jib.548

 

[redrocker652002]

That's exactly what I wanted to know
And could you please tell me at what temp you pitch the yeast? Higher than the optimum range? Or in the middle of the range of...

I usually try and hit the higher end of the range of the yeast when I pitch it, just to give the yeast a head start in a warmer wort. Is this right? Beats me, but it has worked for me so far. Please understand as well, I am very new to this and these guys that are responding are way ahead of me. I don't rehydrate simply because I have not thought about it. I sprinkle the yeast in, give my bucket a little (and I mean a very little) shake or roll to get the yeast mixed in and off it goes into my fridge fermenter at the set temp. As was pointed out earlier, you have to be patient. That has never been my strong suit so for me, it has meant to walk away and not even look at it for at least 24 hours. After that, I check it one to twice a day to see what kind of activity I am getting thru the airlock. After about a week, I will pull the bucket out, let it sit on the counter for a bit and take a gravity reading with my hydrometer. If it is close to what Brewfather says I should be, I will put it back in my fridge fermenter and check it a day or two after that. Once timing is right, I will add my dry hops, if there are any, about 3 to 4 days before packaging. I have read anything more than 5 days and the dry hops can start to taste grassy? Not sure, cause that has never happened. I am going to experiment with dry hoping in my keg and serving from the same keg at some point, but for now, that is kinda how I do it. Once again, not a pro in any way shape or form, and these guys who are replying are way better and more knowledgeable than I. If you want, you can PM me for more, but these guys are much better so I would go with what they say. Either way, patience is your friend for sure in this hobby. Rock On!!!!!

 

[mac_1103]

I was under the impression there was some issue of osmotic pressure when rehydrating in wort, but again, I'm working on hazy memory. Is that quote from a yeast lab?

Yes it's a quote from Fermentis. They put it on the TDS for every one of their beer yeasts. I don't know how there could be any osmotic issue with rehydrating in wort since sprinkling directly onto wort is OK. There is the potential for osmotic shock if you rehydrate bottling yeast in priming solution; maybe that's what you're thinking of.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

edit: hmm. this seems to agree that wort is OK if warmed up to 30C. (not sure where they got 30C)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jib.548

One of the strains mentioned in the 2018 paper was from Lallemand. Lallemand has re-hydration instructions (link). It would be interesting to see how the vendor provided instructions compare to the results reported in the 2018 paper.

 

[IslandLizard]

One of the strains mentioned in the 2018 paper was from Lallemand. Lallemand has re-hydration instructions (link). It would be interesting to see how the vendor provided instructions compare to the results reported in the 2018 paper.

Lallemand's Rehydration Instructions are actually here:
https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/docs/products/bp/BEST-PRACTICES_REHYDRATION_DIGITAL.pdf
I'm attaching it, for posterity, it's not all that easy to find on their site.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

it's not all that easy to find on their site.

... but it's also not "hard".

Home - Lallemand Brewing redirects me to the "united-states" portion of the web site (so, fellow readers, YMMV when clicking on the link).

Menu bar at the top of the page (desktop) or "hamburger" (phones) should include "products" and "brewers corner" options. Direct links to the 'interesting' pages are ...

• Yeast products: Learn more about our brewing yeast. | Lallemand Brewing
• Brewers Corner: Brewer’s corner - Lallemand Brewing
• Brewers Corner Downloads: Downloads | Lallemand Brewing

Currently, there is a link to the re-hydration guide under the "best practices" video on the yeast products page (click on the pitching recommendations tab).

 

[sibelman]

Regarding temperature of wort at pitching, two factoids:

Some (e.g. Palmer) warn to avoid lowering temperature after pitching, suggesting it's best to pitch at the low end, or even a bit below, the yeast's preferred temperature range. I usually use this approach.

In contrast, some lager brewers, seeking a quicker start of fermentation, pitch above the desired range and then decrease the temperature once fermentation has begun.

Cheers!

 

[yowzers]

I just pour the yeast directly into the fermenter when it is at the set-point temp. I use a coil type fermentation temperature controller so I add the yeast when the liquid reading hits my setpoint. Usually that's something like 66F with a standard ale yeast. With this coil, it only takes an hour to get the wort from 80 or 90 F down to the 66 F I like so it's no big deal to wait to pitch.
https://ballandkeg.com/products/temperature-control-coil