jabberwalkie
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Title really spells it out, but when can you stop calling yourself a beginner?
You're no longer a beginner when you stop learning.
You're no longer a beginner when you stop learning.
You're no longer a beginner when you realize that to continue to advance in this hobby, or even just to find enjoyment in it, requires constant learning, and stretching beyond your comfort zone.
I think there should be several categories defining experience, perhaps these:
beginner
experienced/intermediate
advanced
expert
pro (though that's questionable)
I have done 32 batches; first 3 were extract, next 29 were all-grain, last three were BIAB. I don't consider myself a beginner.
I suspect beginners tend to only understand enough about the process to reproduce the process (more or less ). When you start understanding not just the what but also the why, you're moving away from beginner status to...experienced? Intermediate? Something else?
I believe I came along pretty fast; during those 32 batches I learned how to do all-grain; bought a PH meter to assess and correct mash PH and water chemistry; bought an RO system to produce my water, along w/ a TDS meter; bought a refrigerator with which I control fermentation temperatures (along w/ an Inkbird); learned how to keg beer and learned about CO2, regulators, carbing beer; built a keezer; upgraded my initial equipment to more advanced and better capacity equipment; learned how to control O2 exposure during racking from fermenter to keg; learned to dry hop in the keg; learned how to tweak my recipes to improve my beer.
I don't think I qualify as a beginner--so I don't think number of batches necessarily has a lot to do with it.
In fact, I believe that once one can produce good or excellent beer repeatedly, one is no longer a beginner. I can do that.
BTW, the things that I think allowed me to move along at a fast pace were listening to experienced brewers' advice (mostly on HBT), reconciling the differences when they appeared, reading and then reading more, buying brewing books that focused not just on recipes but on process, and perhaps most importantly, following a continuous quality improvement approach where I try to do something better every time I brew.
I don't know if I agree with this... I get the sentiment, that continuous learning, experimentation, etc. is important, (That I do agree with) but in terms of beginner/not beginner, I think it's the opposite...
You're no longer a beginner when you realize that to continue to advance in this hobby, or even just to find enjoyment in it, requires constant learning, and stretching beyond your comfort zone.
I think you'll ALWAYS be just a beginner if you stop learning... If you think you know all there is to know, then you're always be nothing more than an arrogant noob. Wisdom comes from knowing that there is always some new to know...
I also think that you're no longer a beginner when you realize that every mistake big or little is NOT a guarantee that you ruined your beer. When you get the words, "Is my beer ruined" "Should I dump it" and "Is it infected" out of your mindset...
AND when you realize that even if it is ruined, or infected, it really isn't the end of the world.
When you truly experience what it means to RDWHAHB
You're no longer a beginner when you stop learning.
I don't know if I agree with this... I get the sentiment, that continuous learning, experimentation, etc. is important, (That I do agree with) but in terms of beginner/not beginner, I think it's the opposite...
You're no longer a beginner when you realize that to continue to advance in this hobby, or even just to find enjoyment in it, requires constant learning, and stretching beyond your comfort zone.
I think you'll ALWAYS be just a beginner if you stop learning... If you think you know all there is to know, then you're always be nothing more than an arrogant noob. Wisdom comes from knowing that there is always some new to know...
I also think that you're no longer a beginner when you realize that every mistake big or little is NOT a guarantee that you ruined your beer. When you get the words, "Is my beer ruined" "Should I dump it" and "Is it infected" out of your mindset...
AND when you realize that even if it is ruined, or infected, it really isn't the end of the world.
When you truly experience what it means to RDWHAHB
Look at it like gardening,with gardening you only get one chance a year so you might be an expert in 20 or so years. same thing with brewing,if you only brew once a month it might take a while. I've been brewing since 2012 and will be brewing my 176th batch this week,and I learn something every day.
Title really spells it out, but when can you stop calling yourself a beginner?
Any beginner with some good directions can produce beer, even their first time. In fact a beginner can even reproduce world-class beers given the right ingredients and equipment in my opinion.
@mongoose I appreciated your thoughtful post. You made some good points. You started with the definition of beginner as being someone who has a lot to learn. I am beginner than in many things as I agree with you its part of a healthy intellect. You then mention a skill activity in which you obtained some expertise. I think for me I look at Brewing different. I would put cooking in that category possibly as well. You end by mentioning golf. To me they are different and I'll explain why.
Any beginner with some good directions can produce beer, even their first time. In fact a beginner can even reproduce world-class beers given the right ingredients and equipment in my opinion. However many might disagree with that and I believe in general people have an overinflated idea on Brewing but there is no doubting that a beginner could produce quality beer.
I am an expert golfer. I've shot even-par more times than I can remember, I have played in the 60s and I generally score in the 70s. Even though it is possible, it is very unlikely anyone will ever go out and do that their first time playing.
It would be embarrassing for me to outline the amount of effort and time I put into golfing to play at that level. I am embarrassed that I spent so many years of my life seeking excellence in a game. Now you could compare me to a PGA Tour professional and call me a beginner related to them.
However in a golf tournament I can't sign up as a beginner because it just wouldn't be fair. I've shot like two guns in my life it wouldn't be fair for me to have a contest with you in shooting.
In Brewing we could all compete regardless of numbers of years experience and I'm not so sure there's a guaranteed Victory with years of experience. In fact I think somebody could have Thirty or forty years of experience and make terrible beer and no experience and make great beer. I'm not just trying to argue here and clearly I am not a beginning Brewer as are many of us. I guess to me one thing is an art another is a skill.
Here's what is funny to me: i remember when you first became a member. Very newbie. Very beginner. I think you're past that status, assuming I have any right to bestow status on anyone here.
I'll play with the golf stuff and respond why I think they're similar; interested in hearing what you have to say about it.
Such a claim would be all the better for evidence showing it is actually possible, but I'll accept it's theoretically possible.
I think it's as close to impossible as anything is. Brewing is essentially a mental skill and while golf has its share of mental elements (a lot, actually), it also has a lot of physical skill elements. Brewing? Not really.
I would disagree. You aren't as skilled; that doesn't make you a beginner. If you imagine the trek from first-time golfer to PGA Tour pro as being a scale from 0 to 100, you're clearly well up in the 90 range and I'd suggest, as a percentage of all golfers, you are clearly in the top 1 percent.
A beginner you're not, at least in golf.
Agreed. I see golf as analogous to brewing in this way. I was on a quest to see how good I could get at golf. No idea where the top was, and I didn't become serious about the game until I was in my early 40s. Had a lot of bad habits to overcome.
Anyway, I brought my handicap down to a 6.7, and I have shot a round of par golf on a regulation course playing by the rules. But only one.
There were lots of nuances that I learned about on my quest, from mental game issues (Bob Rotella? Robert Parent?) to learning to read a golf course (I have a number of golf course design books) to playing a course backwards to figure out how to play it forward....well, there's an awful lot of things. Pre-shot routine. Risk-reward. Learning how different lies affect shots (fliers anyone?). Reading a green. Grain. Poa versus bent.
AS, I even had a custom golf club business for a while, and I believe I made some of the best golf clubs you could buy; the end of the Tiger era flooded the market and that was that.
Here's the sad part: two back surgeries. I can't hold posture during a swing late in a round, and either I speed up the swing or stand up during the swing--and you I am certain know that neither is a recipe for a good shot. (I'm doing some new workout elements, and I'm hopeful I can get back at it--but I lament that I was never able to find out what my game might have topped out at).
I agree 100 percent that the lack of physical skill in brewing sets brewing apart from golf in that way. My equating golf to brewing was that just as golf has all these interesting things to learn that I noted above, brewing has them too--mashing, recipe development, water amendments, understanding pH, yeast starters, different yeasts, sanitation, fermentation temperature control, sulfate/chloride ratio, dry hopping, chill haze, using finings, eliminating O2 from the process post-fermentation, hop utilization.....I could go on and on, as I'm sure you could too.
Golf, for me, has all these interesting mental elements to it. So does brewing. That's the equivalency I was going for.
All this golf talk makes me want to find a way to play 18 with you; we certainly would not be without topics of conversation!
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BTW, one of the things that really helped my development as a golfer was playing with better players. They'd make different choices than I was making, and I'd wonder why. Sometimes I'd ask. Learned a lot that way.
That's why I pay attention to what the experienced/expert brewers here say; if they're doing something different than I am, I want to know why.
there is a saying that it takes 10,000 hours of practice to become proficient at something.
In a lot of hobbies - music, sports, etc, there is a saying that it takes 10,000 hours of practice to become proficient at something.
Think about that the next time you get on a commuter flight and your captain is like 24 years old.
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