He's talking about corn starch, not corn or corn flour. That starch has already been extracted from the rest and it's now a very fine powder. This basically means that it's as accessible to the enzymes as it gets.
Wheat flour
- Thread starter ginger_beer
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That's why flour works so well without an additional boil!
Since no one else mentioned this yet, I am going to caution against using pasta unless you know whether it was made with eggs or not. The fats in the yolk are a great binder for the flour, but might damage head retention in your beer. YMMV.
G_robertus
Well-Known Member
Yes but I'm wondering wether the granule size of cornstarch is too small that even when they're not locked up in cells they might be hard to free. You generally need to apply quite a bit of heat to get it to work and prolonged high temperatures to denature cornstarch. My point is that I just wonder how accessible it the granules are to the enzymes before heat treatment. I guess I can add this to the list of many things I should try once.
Today I brewed a batch of 50% pilsner malt and 50% white wheat flour using my standard BIAB method.
A real adrenaline experience that turned into panic in moments. Although I mixed the flour and grain dry well, large balls formed in the mash, which I kept breaking up, so I extended the mash from the standard 60 to 80 minutes. By the end, the balls had mostly broken or shrunk significantly. However, when I started to lift the bag, there was panic. She took 2/3 of the liquid with her so that she was so heavy that I could hardly hold her, and the squeezing was very slow and difficult. After at least twice as much squeezing time as I usually take to squeeze a bag, I was able to squeeze out most of the liquid, but rather less as much as when I make all-malt beer. I think I will have at least 10% lower utilization than I planned (it won't be more than 65%). At the end of boil, a fatty layer of protein floated on the surface. Washing the bag and brewing pot was also quite a horror. Everything was fatly and much harder to wash. The whole process took about two hours longer than usual and I can say that it is really quite a different experience.
The beer would really have to be exceptionally good to do it again.
A real adrenaline experience that turned into panic in moments. Although I mixed the flour and grain dry well, large balls formed in the mash, which I kept breaking up, so I extended the mash from the standard 60 to 80 minutes. By the end, the balls had mostly broken or shrunk significantly. However, when I started to lift the bag, there was panic. She took 2/3 of the liquid with her so that she was so heavy that I could hardly hold her, and the squeezing was very slow and difficult. After at least twice as much squeezing time as I usually take to squeeze a bag, I was able to squeeze out most of the liquid, but rather less as much as when I make all-malt beer. I think I will have at least 10% lower utilization than I planned (it won't be more than 65%). At the end of boil, a fatty layer of protein floated on the surface. Washing the bag and brewing pot was also quite a horror. Everything was fatly and much harder to wash. The whole process took about two hours longer than usual and I can say that it is really quite a different experience.
The beer would really have to be exceptionally good to do it again.
Next time, try massaging, not squeezing. That seems to be the key to unclock all the little pores of the bag. Gentle massage, gentle squeeze. Gentle massage, gentle squeeze. It will take a bit longer than usual, but not THAT much longer.
You already mentioned it, but I don't know how to do it?
Now I just lift the bag and squeeze it, leave it in a plastic bucket, after ten minutes I pour out the liquid that collects in the bucket and squeeze the bag again and so on several times.
Well... just massging it I guess. 
Well... just massging it I guess.
You probably mean that I put the bag in the bucket and gently massage it to release as much wort as possible.
This is getting close to "X Rated Brewing" 
No, you hold it above the bucket in which you are collecting the wort and move the inside of the bag around with your hands from the outside. In between a squeeze here and there and then massaging again.
Be gentle with it, you got the whole night together, no need to rush.
Put on some Marvin Gaye for this.
I don't have the ability to do it that way. Nevermind, I tried. Now let's see what kind of beer will turn out in a month.
A very smooth one!
Stikius
Well-Known Member
Before I went AiO I used to keep an oven rack and a bucket with lots of holes drilled in the bottom close by. Just put the grainbag in the bucket and the bucket on the rack, and place it on top of the kettle. Then you can let it drain itself for as long as you want to, or give it a little help with massage and/or squeezing.
A massage chair, I like that idea!
I also had such an idea a few years ago, but I didn't need it until now, so I didn't even try to realize it.
Stikius
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't worry. Try it, and see what happens. Otherwise you won't know what to do next time.
Why would the yeast be stressed from this beer?
I do not know. I am thinking. Because of a lot of protein in it. It's different than what I've done so far, so I'm wondering a lot.
I know that yeast stress causes underpitching, higher alcohol levels, and that it is not good to harvest yeast from a beer with a lot of hops. This beer has none of that, so hopefully my fear is unwarranted.
G_robertus
Well-Known Member
I think you got the order mixed up a bit. Underpitching is one cause for yeast stress and everything that comes with it. I don't think this will stress your yeast though. Some flour brands are very low in protein and might get you a (small) shortage of FAN. Add some extra nutrient if you're very worried. I'd worry more about the amount of trub you might transfer into your fermenter.
I have already harvest yeast with a large trub before and there were no problems with the fermentation of the next batch.
More protein is good for the yeast!
