What's that taste? AG recipe

[MikeICR]

I'm about half way through lagering an Oktoberfest and samples reveal a sweet taste I recognize, but can't identify. It's shown up in a few brews now, usually in the darker ones. The recipe is below. What do you think?

5.5gal
OG 1.066
FG 1.011
ABV 7.18
IBUs 20.6

8.5lbs Pilsner
2lbs Crystal 40L
2lb Munich 10L
1lbs Munich 20L
0.5lbs Carapils
0.5oz Northern Brewer - 60 min
0.5oz Tettnang - 30 min
0.5oz Hallertauer - 10 min
1tsp Irish moss - 10 min

Yeast Saflager S-23

Used an enhanced double decoction mash.

I use most of these ingredients in some combination regularly, so it's hard to pinpoint. I make a Lowenbrau clone with the same hops and hop schedule, so I doubt it's the hops or the yeast (same as Lowenbrau).

 

[Golddiggie]

OG? SG? FG? Yeast used? What's a common ingredient across the batches? Is it the cara-pils? Could be that right there. What temp did you mash at?

 

[MikeICR]

Edited original post to include more details.

 

[Yooper]

With two pounds of crystal malt, could you be tasting the crystal sweetness? I use about 10% or less crystal in my Oktoberfest.

 

[MikeICR]

With two pounds of crystal malt, could you be tasting the crystal sweetness? I use about 10% or less crystal in my Oktoberfest.

Good thought! How can I get the color without the taste?

 

[Yooper]

Good thought! How can I get the color without the taste?

Well, one pound of crystal would be sufficient. I use 8 ounces of crystal 80L and 8 ounces of caramunich (about 60L) in mine and it's about 12 SRM. With the carapils, you've got 2.5 pounds of crystal malt. The carapils isn't necessary with all the other crystal and Munich malt, especially since you've done a double decoction which should also increase the perception of maltiness.

Of course, with an Oktoberfest, I use Vienna as the base malt and not pilsner malt.

 

[MikeICR]

A little BeerSmith rearranging and I've come up with this:

9lbs Pilsner (66.67%)
3.5lb Munich 10L (25.93%)
1lbs Crystal 80L (7.41%)
(everything else stays the same)

It keeps the same estimated OG, FG, ABV, IBUs and color. Is this a more realistic use for crystal malts in general?

Are darker crystal malts generally stronger in caramel/sweet flavor?

 

[Yooper]

A little BeerSmith rearranging and I've come up with this:

9lbs Pilsner (66.67%)
3.5lb Munich 10L (25.93%)
1lbs Crystal 80L (7.41%)
(everything else stays the same)

It keeps the same estimated OG, FG, ABV, IBUs and color. Is this a more realistic use for crystal malts in general?

Are darker crystal malts generally stronger in caramel/sweet flavor?

The lighter the crystal malt, in general, the "sweeter" it is. The darker the crystal malt is, the more "toffee" or even "raisiny" it gets.

I use Vienna malt for my base grain in darker lagers, or Munich malt, but if you want to use pilsner that's ok. I also sometimes use Weyermann's Munich II, which is darker than the regular Munich malt.

I prefer a mix of crystal malts usually, rather than one type, in many beers. For example, 8 ounces of caramunich and 8 ounces of crystal 80L. Or 8 ounces of crystal 20L and 8 ounces of crystal 80L. There is more of a depth of flavor, if that makes sense.

 

[MikeICR]

that makes total sense. Thanks for the advice. Grain availability is a serious problem where I am, but I think I've finally found a way around that. That's part of the reason I have Pilsner malt as my base.

I'm about to make a trip to buy some bulk grain. I've already decided on a bag of wheat and a bag of pilsner. I brew (or try to brew) almost exclusively German and European beers and I brew a lot! Is it worth picking up a bag of Munich or Vienna for my darker brews? Bocks, and marzens?

 

[Yooper]

that makes total sense. Thanks for the advice. Grain availability is a serious problem where I am, but I think I've finally found a way around that. That's part of the reason I have Pilsner malt as my base.

I'm about to make a trip to buy some bulk grain. I've already decided on a bag of wheat and a bag of pilsner. I brew (or try to brew) almost exclusively German and European beers and I brew a lot! Is it worth picking up a bag of Munich or Vienna for my darker brews? Bocks, and marzens?

Oh, I think so! I rarely use Pilsner malt, compared to how often I use Vienna and Munich malt. Of course, I'll use Vienna and Munich in my American pale ales also, so I use a ton of both!

Bradsul has a great Vienna lager recipe posted- it's 100% Vienna malt with a double decoction, I believe. I've done it, and it's great. Vienna malt has a rich malt flavor- sort of "in between" the flavor of pilsner and Munich malts.

Of course, it really depends on what you make most, but I think you'd be happy with more than pilsner malt as a base malt.