What should we use to sour?

[DoctorB2B]

So my buddies and I have brewed a bourbon/vanilla stout weighing in at 8% ... we're gonna bottle half of the 5 gallon batch and experiment with the other half. I had the pleasure of having an infecting Odell Bourbon Barrel Stout and it was amazing. Also, New Belgium's Clutch was pretty good as well.

My question is, what could we add to it to give it a bit of sour character. We talked with one of the head brewers at Foothills Brewing and he suggested fresh cranberries or cherries due to naturally occuring bacteria, however cherries aren't around and from what I've found, fresh cranberries don't seem to have any lactobacillus unless what I'm reading is totally off.

Any other suggestions outside of straight lacto? And if that is indeed what we are to use, how much should we add? We're only looking for a small sour component ... not for it to be the major overpowering element.

Thanks all!

 

[android]

if you want something besides straight lacto, you might try something like the wyeast roeselare, which also had pedio and brett in, which would add more wild character to it. you might also consider some oak, that could play well with the bourbon/vanilla character. straight lacto has some limitations though, how many IBU was your beer? lacto is sensitive to some hop compounds. it's also sensitive to ABV, 9% looks like it's about the max according to wyeast. i don't think how much you add will really matter since you only have a finite amount of food left for it... i'm also not sure how well lacto eats the more complex sugars the yeast leaves behind, but you might not get a ton of sour character given that you will be adding the lacto post fermentation. what was the final gravity of this beer?

 

[thegerm]

you could throw a handful of uncrushed malt into your fermentor. malt is covered in naturally occuring lactobacillus.

 

[passedpawn]

I think everything is covered with lacto. I think the advice about the cranberries is false.

Anyway, just do all of them: cranberries, grapes, and a handful of grain. You will certainly get what you are looking for.

 

[Calder]

If you drink a sour beer, save the last half inch from the bottle, and toss that in the beer. Wait 12 months and you will have a great sour beer.

There are no short-cuts to decent sour beers.

 

[wonderbread23]

You're not going to be able to sour it with straight lacto. Lacto is very sensitive to hops and alcohol. You'll need to add something else (like pedio). Adding pedio alone presents another problem; it throws a lot of diacetyl. You'll probably want to throw brett in there to clean it up. You best bet would be a blend of bugs (like roselare).

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I have a wild strain of lacto in one of my beers that laughs at hops, but anything commercial will not stand up to much in the way of hops or ABV.

The answer to your question really depends on how sour you want that beer to be and whether you want brett character. If you want brett character as well as sour, you should pitch a blend (roselare or any other would do) or dregs from a sour bottle. Then wait 6-18 months. If you just want a little sour component, honestly you're probably best getting some food grade lactic acid and adding it at bottling. It's "cheating" according to some but many pro breweries do it. You could add very tart fruit and once the sugar ferments out you'll have the acid from the fruit which will provide you some sourness, if you don't mind the fruit flavor. If you can't find fresh tart cherries you should be able to find concentrate, puree or even pure cherry juice.

I would be hesitant to toss in anything unsanitized at this point because even if you get a good lacto strain you're probably also getting less desirable bacteria and wild yeast. You could end up having to wait a long time for the beer to stabilize and there's no guarantee it will taste good.

 

[DoctorB2B]

eh ... good call ... it was idea. Perhaps at this point, the amount of time required is just too much for what were looking for. Much appreciated all!