What Sanitisers and Cleaners are used.

[IslandLizard]

This might be the best place to pose this question. Does Star San have an expiration date? I have been using the same bottle of Star San and for several years, and it seems to be just fine! But, I got to wondering this week as I was Brewing if I should be looking for a new bottle. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with Star San going bad?

Five Stars puts an expiration date on the bottles and jugs, which in my mind is totally bogus. A few months back I finally finished a 32oz jug of Starsan that I had bought about 7 years ago. Still worked like it did the first day. If anything, the concentrate may have gotten a tint or 2 darker over that time, compared to the new gallon I bought.

I keep the working solution in buckets, there's always something soaking in it, and when it gets grayish or a bit too scummy to my (already low) standards, I dump it and make fresh. That's always a nice and happy day.

Now I did notice when the working solution sits for a week or longer a white chalky precipitate forms on the bottom. Racking hoses laying there also get coated on the inside with that. I pour or rack the Starsan from the top into another bucket and leave the precipitate, dust, and other debris behind. I simply run a draw brush through the hoses, rinse them out and they go back into the Starsan.

After a few (2-6) weeks, the Starsan tends to get a slick feel to it . It still seems to work fine though, but hoses and stuff feel weird. That slickness eventually disappears, and the solution becomes clearer with time. Perhaps the dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid decomposes slowly, which could change its sanitation properties. I always keep the pH under 3.0 by adding a few drops of phosphoric acid (Duda Diesel). Anything stored in that solution gets brushed, rinsed and immersed into fresh solution before use.

Some say when you use distilled or RO water the working solution won't get cloudy (as quickly). Maybe that precipitate doesn't form then either. I've never tested that.

Since I got a gallon of concentrate, I've become a bit more liberal in making fresh solutions.

 

[WilliamSlayer]

Thanks guys, I will check into some test strips just to be sure my stuff is still under 3.0.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks guys, I will check into some test strips just to be sure my stuff is still under 3.0.

The working solution that is...

 

[helibrewer]

I mix StarSan with RO water and it stays clear. Dudadiesel also sells NaOH (Food grade lye), I buy the 2lb containers (pelletized) and mix my own 3% caustic (w/w) solution for beverage line cleaning and close loop cleaning my plate chiller.

 

[Newsman]

I use Oxyclean for cleaning, and then after a thorough rinse, I use StarSan to sanitize

 

[kh54s10]

I have a 5 year old bottle of Starsan. Only about an ounce left. There is no expiration date on it. One of the caps is cracked. It still mixes well and maintains the right pH.

When I get low I top up some in my 5 gallon water bottle. I must have good water because it never goes cloudy. It maintains a good pH and lasts a long time.

For cleaning I have had great results from any Oxyclean or generic version.

 

[WilliamSlayer]

I was advised a long time ago to use distilled water, so i always have unless in a pinch.

 

[nfcwhatimdoing]

Ok, so kind of a long story. I bought a used whiskey barrel hoping to add a top to it for a kitchen table (I'm one of those weird people, lol). Called a local brewing company to see if they had a sanitizer for it. He said unless I cut it open and sand it down to new wood, it will grow mold/fungi/etc even if i cleaned it. "It might be ok for a while, maybe two months or two years." Is this true? I really don't want to have to cut it open since I want to use the whole thing and I feel like that would ruin it. Sorry if this is totally in the wrong place. You all seem very knowledgeable.

 

[oakbarn]

Ok, so kind of a long story. I bought a used whiskey barrel hoping to add a top to it for a kitchen table (I'm one of those weird people, lol). Called a local brewing company to see if they had a sanitizer for it. He said unless I cut it open and sand it down to new wood, it will grow mold/fungi/etc even if i cleaned it. "It might be ok for a while, maybe two months or two years." Is this true? I really don't want to have to cut it open since I want to use the whole thing and I feel like that would ruin it. Sorry if this is totally in the wrong place. You all seem very knowledgeable.

BS. If it is dry it will not grow anything. How many half whiskey barrels do they sell for gardening? None that I have ever seen have mold even when filled with garden soil and used. I have a 5 gal used whiskey barrel that I use for beer and when it does not have beer, I keep it filled with water. I have had it for a couple of years and there is no mold.

 

[peterlonz]

There are a few possible options that should reduce the risk of mould:
1) Fill with a strong salt solution & leave for maybe a month before draining.
2) Purchase some timber treatment crystals ( my local Hardware store has this) make a solution & roll the barrel around for a few weeks so all internal surfaces are "treated".
3) Use 100% ethylene glycol (that's right vehicle cooling system ant-freeze).
Put in barrel & roll around daily for a couple of weeks.
4) lowest cost: add 4 lites of swimming pool liquid chlorine & 4 litres of water, again roll the barrel around daily.
Finally you must thoroughly dry the barrel timber, maybe use a vacumn cleaner output hose & feed into the barrel. This could take a week depending on atmospheric conditions. Run the vacumn maybe at 2 hour intervals.

 

[Soulshine2]

excuse my curiosity but how about 3% hydrogen peroxide?

 

[Todes]

Brewers are an ingenious lot.

This is a list of some of the products uses for cleaning and sanitising.

Cleaners


5. If it's stainless, BKF.

What does BKF means?

 

[oakbarn]

Bar Keeper's Friend = Powdered Cleaner like Comet or Bon Ami except it helps with keeping the Stainless rust resistant (Passivation).

"Stainless steel is not resistant to chemical or physical attack. The corrosion resistance of stainless steel depends on the formation of a 'passive surface film' composed of nickel and chromium oxides (Cr203 & Ni0). Passivation involves removing free Fe or 'tramp Fe' from the stainless steel surface."

 

[peterlonz]

The use of (only) BKF on stainless seems overly restrictive to me.
I spent 14 years in the stainless industry, & can advise that so long as you practice any form of ordinary kitchen cleaning routine you will be just fine & probably for longer than you have left to live ( I have seen stainless work/sink benches over 50 years old with no serious corrosion).

A few caveats: avoid any chloride ion producing compound (example salt) & avoid bleach or any cleaner that may be bleach based.
No need for expensive proprietary brand cleaners, scrubbing with hot water (& rinsing with very hot water) usually is sufficient so long as you have access.
There are several well known & excellent cleaners mentioned in this thread & others. Use the one you can buy easily in conjunction with hot water.

 

[Todes]

Thank you both of you

 

[oakbarn]

The use of (only) BKF on stainless seems overly restrictive to me.
I spent 14 years in the stainless industry, & can advise that so long as you practice any form of ordinary kitchen cleaning routine you will be just fine & probably for longer than you have left to live ( I have seen stainless work/sink benches over 50 years old with no serious corrosion).

A few caveats: avoid any chloride ion producing compound (example salt) & avoid bleach or any cleaner that may be bleach based.
No need for expensive proprietary brand cleaners, scrubbing with hot water (& rinsing with very hot water) usually is sufficient so long as you have access.
There are several well known & excellent cleaners mentioned in this thread & others. Use the one you can buy easily in conjunction with hot water.

I have never had trouble with a sink but have had issues with Kettles, especially around any welds. You may also get "free FE" contamination from any non stainless steel tools, such as when you tighten a nut on a valve stem. You have to clean regardless, and most manufacturers state that you need to treat your stainless kettles at least once a year or when ever you see any rust.

Here is a link to the BeerSmith blog about it

http://beersmith.com/blog/2017/01/0...-beer-brewing-equipment-to-prevent-corrosion/.

 

[oakbarn]

and from SS BrewTech:

Stainless Steel Preparation and Cleaning Your Ss Brewtech stainless steel equipment has been manufactured with a highly polished finish. While this is the best for maintaining a sanitary surface, the finish can be damaged or dulled by aggressive chemical or abrasive cleaners. The follow-ing recommendations will ensure your bucket maintains optimum performance throughout its life:FIRST TIME USECleaningPrior to your first time use, you should wash the equipment with Tri-Sodium Phosphate (TSP) in hot water following the manufacturer’s recommendations. After the TSP wash, rinse well and use a soft cloth to dry all surfaces.PassivationIt’s a good idea to passivate your stainless steel equipment with an acid based solution. Filling the vessel with StarSan at 1oz per gallon of water or other acid passivation solution at the recommended strength and at a temperature of 70-80F for 20 minutes, followed by an air dry is all that is needed.sanitizingWe recommend you sanitize your equipment with StarSan or other acid based sanitizer per the manufacturer’s recom-mended directions prior to use.CLEANING AFTER USEUse a standard brewery caustic or PBW to remove the protein buildup from the inside of the bucket. Follow the directions for strength and temperature and let the cleaner do the work. If needed, a soft nylon brush can be used to remove heavy deposits. The Ball Valve and Lid Gasket should also be removed, disassembled and cleaned as well.NEVER USE•Stainless Steel Scrubbing Pads or Scotch Bright pads - These will remove the protective oxide layer on the stainless and cause discoloring, and in some cases surface rust could form.•Chlorine bleach or Chorine based products - These will cause pitting of the stainless steel, or literal pin holes through the surface, which can’t be repaired. These may also induce surface rust.•Oxalic Acid cleaners such as Bar Keeper’s Friend, Kleen King, or Revere Ware Stainless cleaners on the Etched Markings – These may cause the etching to fade.•OxiClean or other peroxide cleaners in combination with hard water – This can cause calcium carbonate to precipitate onto the surface of the stainless. If this happens, a re-passivation (per above) should remove the deposits nicely.PASSIVATE PERIODICALLYTo ensure the longest life for you stainless steel, you should passivate at least once a year or immediately after you may have done anything to scratch the surface. Even the finest grades of stainless steel can develop rust if the oxide layer is removed or damaged. Passivation is your best defense against surface damage of your stainless steel equipment over time.

Note that using BKF on etched marking will cause them to fade.

 

[Fly_Guy]

Question about oxyclean.

I've used it a few times now on my carboys and blow off tubes and beer bottles I'm saving. But my blow off tube and glass carboy seems to have an alcohol-estery smell to it. It looks clean, is this normal? Or should I try soaking/cleaning again?

Thanks

 

[bronzdragon]

I've used Oxyclean Free as a primary cleaner for years on my gear. Sometimes I follow it up with a quick wash with PBW, depending on how dirty the equipment is. I would say, to go ahead and rinse it again, if there's any question in your head.

 

[kh54s10]

Almost all of my plastic brewing equipment will hold on to the smells of the last brew in them for at least a day after cleaning, no matter what product I use. The smells do not seem to have any effect on the next brew.

 

[allanyork]

What about aseptox. Is that a good sanitizer?

 

[kh54s10]

What about aseptox. Is that a good sanitizer?

My quick Google search found it listed as a 1 step cleanser. What I found is that it will sanitize, one site said sterilize. I am certain that it will not sterilize. I am unconvinced that it would be a good sanitizer. It was also said to be an oxygen cleaner similar to Oxyclean.

Personally I would not use it for sanitation. If you don't have access to Starsan or Iodaphor, you might try it.

 

[Andre3000]

I'll admit IveI used StarSan ever since I started brewing, but I have to ask with regards to the ingredients:

Dodecylbenzenesulfonic Acid - 300ppm
Phosphoric Acid - 780ppm

Is anyone concerned about Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid? I'm ignorantly going off the assumption that benzene anything is bad, and I couldn't really find much on it.

 

[jiMithing83]

I'll admit IveI used StarSan ever since I started brewing, but I have to ask with regards to the ingredients:

Dodecylbenzenesulfonic Acid - 300ppm
Phosphoric Acid - 780ppm

Is anyone concerned about Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid? I'm ignorantly going off the assumption that benzene anything is bad, and I couldn't really find much on it.

4-Dodecylbenzenesulfonic Acid is a sodium dodecylbenzenesulfonate, a series of organic compounds with the formula C12H25C6H4SO3Na. It is a colourless salt with useful properties as a surfactant. It is usually produced as a mixture of related sulfonates. It is a major component of laundry detergent.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/4-dodecylbenzenesulfonic_acid#section=Top

The safety and hazards section lists it as corrosive and toxic, both at 10% or higher. 300 ppm is 0.03%.

 

[kh54s10]

Then you take that 300ppm and dilute it in 5 gallons of water, soak your utensils and drain off all but the moist surface and dilute the minute amount left in the wort, or at worst 12 ounce bottles and you are down to what? Guessing less than .0003%

Unless it is something that can build up in your body I don't think it is something to be concerned about.

 

[Andre3000]

4-Dodecylbenzenesulfonic Acid is a sodium dodecylbenzenesulfonate, a series of organic compounds with the formula C12H25C6H4SO3Na. It is a colourless salt with useful properties as a surfactant. It is usually produced as a mixture of related sulfonates. It is a major component of laundry detergent.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/4-dodecylbenzenesulfonic_acid#section=Top

The safety and hazards section lists it as corrosive and toxic, both at 10% or higher. 300 ppm is 0.03%.

Excellent! Thanks.

Then you take that 300ppm and dilute it in 5 gallons of water, soak your utensils and drain off all but the moist surface and dilute the minute amount left in the wort, or at worst 12 ounce bottles and you are down to what? Guessing less than .0003%

Unless it is something that can build up in your body I don't think it is something to be concerned about.

I believe those are the diluted concentations.

 

[adamhoward]

Informative for me.

 

[bendog15]

All I’ve ever used in 5 years of homebrewing is oxyclean and star-san. Never had a single infection.

 

[kh54s10]

The acids in Starsan are 65% of the undiluted amount. And the Dodecylbenzenesulfonic Acid is only 15% of that. One ounce of Starsan is .156% in the 5 gallons of water and the Dodecylbenzenesulfonic Acid is only 15% of the .156% of the undiluted Starsan going into the 5 gallons of water.

15% of .156% = .000234% Not too worrisome.

Then the minute amount left when you drain it off is further diluted by the beer.

 

[jimmer]

The reason the pros don't use bleach is because Chlorine will etch stainless steel.

It happens particularly where the local electrical conditions are different. This happens in places where there's a boundary , or where there's more ss than open water. For instance: where the liquid meets air, vee cuts on threads, places where right angled walls meet in a square corner.

In these places, the electrical potential is stronger and reactions occur, and the ss will pit. And guess what— conditions are particularly weird in pits, as the bottom and sides are particularly close, so once pitting starts it grows rapidly.

My better half has a restaurant, used to keep her knives in bleach/water at the counter, and ended up pitting several good knives (and also containers) at the water level.

Pros avoid putting chlorine on their good ss vessels as they are impossible to repair well— it's a pain to weld, you have to grind out the welds perfectly smooth, and variations in weld composition lead to more unbalanced electrochemistry.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

My used restaurant sink in my brew area, is pitted from the use of bleach.

There's a couple of holes in it, that are 1/8" dia. or smaller.

I plan to shoot a couple of Monel, ( stainless), solid rivets into them to plug them.

 

[zymsmith]

I use wipes to pre clean my work area. I hit the work surface, door handles, cabinet handles ... faucets.

I use star-san similarly, mix 1.25 oz to gal of Walmart distilled water. It lasts for months. I do not use the dunk method at all...spray.
My bottles get well rinsed after use (baking soda added to rinse bottles and glasses). Brew day I spray all surfaces and tools and keep the spray bottle handy. Bottle day I spray out the 40 or so (grolsch type) bottles then put them on drain tree.

 

[venatorscribe]

Just to add to the sanitizers (sanitisers), I sometimes use 70% Isopropyl Alcohol for little parts (and then rinse with pre-boiled water) and sometimes not-so-little parts when in a jam. But if I remember correctly, I couldn't get that in the UK... I believe it's Surgical Spirit and has more in it than isopropanol and water (and probably cost more than 1£ for a liter... a liter of Isopropyl Alcohol is about $2 in the States).

ADDED

Only Sanitizer in the USA. The rest of the world spells it correctly - Sanitiser)

 

[kh54s10]

Only Sanitizer in the USA. The rest of the world spells it correctly - Sanitiser)

Or... The rest of the world spells is wrong.

 

[WiegertBrewing]

I use the generic Walmart dishwasher detergent for all my cleaning of bottles and carboys. Works great, very cheap and never had any problems. Also thinking of switching from Star San to bleach for sanitizing.

 

[zymsmith]

Just to add to the sanitizers (sanitisers), I sometimes use 70% Isopropyl Alcohol for little parts (and then rinse with pre-boiled water) and sometimes not-so-little parts when in a jam. But if I remember correctly, I couldn't get that in the UK... I believe it's Surgical Spirit and has more in it than isopropanol and water (and probably cost more than 1£ for a liter... a liter of Isopropyl Alcohol is about $2 in the States).

ADDED

I've been rinsing with bleach, is this necessary? I usually do it because whatever I soak in bleach smells like it, and I can't imagine that that is ideal. Anyone know?

I've been rinsing with bleach, is this necessary? I usually do it because whatever I soak in bleach smells like it, and I can't imagine that that is ideal. Anyone know?

I've been rinsing with bleach, is this necessary? I usually do it because whatever I soak in bleach smells like it, and I can't imagine that that is ideal. Anyone know?

 

[zymsmith]

I use star-san in a spray bottle for this purpose an most other sanitizing. Mix 1.2 tspn to gallon of distilled water. Lasts for months. 1 qt in sprayer does an entire brew day, another qt an entire bottling day. Assuming you are starting with clean equipment this is all you need. I've used starsan on SS equipment for years with no ill effects. Keep in mind the stuff degrades to water when exposed to air for time and 2 minutes is all the metals is exposed if you are NOT soaking. In between batches I use the spray for kitchen counters, spray em and wait 2 minutes to wipe.
I tried soaking the bottles once, never again, they get loaded with foam and make filling a mess. I spray the 40 16oz bottles with 8 shots each and put on tree until needed to fill. Haven't produced anything off in years of using these methods.

 

[Jbuckley1996]

Great list Orfy. My only comment is that bleach can be used as a cleaner/sanitizer if you give it enough time. I used to soak my primaries o/n with a bleach solution and by the morning they were spotless. PBW is faster so I use that now.

GT

I have found that automatic dish washer detergent works as well or better than one. I toss 2 packets into a dirty primary fermentor full to the top with hot water and soak overnight. Clean any residue with a soft was cloth & rinse. Sanitize with star San.

 

[50calshooter]

I sanitize my 5 gal fermenters with a cap full of bleach and fill them up. Good rinse and they are good to go. I never never ever let soap touch anything related to beer. Not any bottles not any brew equipment. Nothing. I use star-san in a spray bottle to spot sanitize anything and anything I don’t want to rinse.

 

[Bones1948]

I wash all crud off everything until visibly clean then air-dry or dry w/ paper towel. I sanitize w/ spray mist of 50/50 mix of tap water/generic Everclear (Mohawk brand 95% alcohol, 11 bucks a liter). Nothing can live in it and there is not enough residual alcohol on the surface of the equipment to alter the brewing process or flavors.