what else am I doing wrong with smack pack

[stevehardt]

Let me apologize in advance for a stupid newbie question.

About 3 batches ago I switched from dry yeast to liquid smack packs in the Midwest kits. Each smack pack came in the kit with the pack at least half inflated. Because I was on the "kit of the month" club these smack packs had to sit in the fridge for a few weeks before I used them. When I used them I smacked the package per instructions and pitched. I now realized I should make a starter.

In each of these 3 batches, I saw no signs of fermentation. After 4-5 days I took a gravity reading with little or no change, so I repitched an appropriate dry yeast and the batches turned out fine.

Am I screwing up by not making a starter, getting old smack packs, or some other additional newbe mistake?

It seems like dry yeast is so much easier..of course being a newbie doesnt help.

Any advice is greatly appreciated

 

[Greenbasterd]

the date it was packaged should be on the pack. and they recommend making a starter after its 3 months old. But most people will tell you its a good idea to make one no matter what.

 

[yancydc]

Yeah, smack packs don't have enough yeast for most 5 gallon batches even when they're very fresh, so a starter is par for the course. But you should still get fermentation, plenty of folks just pitch right in without a starter, so it's hard to say what's going on.

In any event, use a starter and you'll have nothing to worry about. Unless your starter doesn't, uh...start.

 

[Rbeckett]

I would smack the pack and allow several hours to begin swelling. If it doesn't swell by pitch time I would throw it and a pack of dry yeast and call it good. There are yeast nutrients in the smack pack that might assist the dry yeast if the liquid ones are not viable or fail to start fermentation. It kind of sucks, but that is one reason I keep a few packets of dry just in case I have an issue on brew day.
Bob

 

[billl]

You probably aren't going to have great luck shipping liquid yeast to florida in summer. High temps kill yeast.

 

[TopherM]

Shipping temps won't kill yeast. Yeast start to get debilitated at about 120F, but don't start to actually die until about 140F. It doesn't get to 140F in the back of a UPS truck, even in FL. FedEx states that the back of one of their trucks is about 20-25F higher than the ambient temp, so about 115-120 on the hottest FL day. They also state that a styrofoam-packed item (they are referring to a bottle of wine in this example) will stay 20-30F cooler than the ambient back of the truck temp, so even packed in peanuts, the yeast packs aren't getting up to 120F, let alone 140F....more like 100-110F on the hottest of FL days.

I live about 20 miles north of the OP, and have never had an issue with shipped yeast. The online homebrew stores wouldn't ship a product that is going to be literally DOA 5-6 months out of the year in several states. That would be just suicidal business practices.

Anyway, even through you certainly should make a starter with most liquid yeasts, I'm not sure that is your primary problem. I use smack packs all the time without making a starter and have happy and healthy fermentations, with little to no lag time or off flavors. To say that you've had three batches where you had NO fermentation after 4-5 days sounds fishy.

Are you "smacking" the packs and letting them inflate at room temp for 3-5 hours prior to pitching? Are you pitching at around 60-70F? Are you fermenting at the proper temps indicated for each yeast?

The likelyhood of having three bad packs in a row is pretty low. If you are just pulling the packs out of the fridge, smacking, and pitching, that would explain your lag problem. If the bag isn't about to literally explode, it isn't ready to pitch.

Pull the pack out of the fridge and smack it first thing on brewday. Let it sit at room temp or even outside for your whole brewday for the yeast to eat the little wort/nutrient packs and propogate. You'll have a nice healthy, happy yeast and fermentation should take off within 24-36 hours.

 

[stevehardt]

Thanks for all the good advice. I think its a combination of a number of things you mentioned...no starter, letting the yeast get too old, not smacking early enough.

Let me ask another question..if a smack pack comes in the mail 3/4 inflated, is it worth using, especially if you can't use it right away. Probably best to make a starter and make sure it starts, right?

Thanks again. I love this forum

 

[TopherM]

All the inflation means is that the yeast are eating, multiplying, and giving off CO2 as the byproduct. Nothing wrong with the smack pack coming 3/4 inflated - that just means that you already have about 3/4 of the intended yeast population ready!

 

[HBngNOK]

If I want to make a starter with from a smack-pack, can I just scissor it open without smacking it and proceed as if I was making a starter from a vial?

 

[J187]

I'm guessing there is some other problem. Making a starter will ensure your yeast will reproduce enough cells to FULLY ferment the batch with excellent efficiency. Simply pitching the pack doesn't mean you will get zero fermentation - I've fermented several batches without starters using 1056 from gravities in the 1060s with no problem and have made great beer - one of the packs I never even activated. That said, making a starter is best and will provide optimum results - but there is some other reason you are not getting ANY results.

Are you pitching at proper temps? What are your fermentation temps?

 

[duboman]

Topher is spot on and the only thing I will add since not mentioned is the initial aeration of the wort prior to pitching. O2 is extremely important for the initial growth phase of yeast and without it you risk increased lag time or possible less than adequate growth of the cells to do their job which results ultimately in very poor fermentation from start to finish.

 

[J187]

Topher is spot on and the only thing I will add since not mentioned is the initial aeration of the wort prior to pitching. O2 is extremely important for the initial growth phase of yeast and without it you risk increased lag time or possible less than adequate growth of the cells to do their job which results ultimately in very poor fermentation from start to finish.

This.

I am hazarding to guess that poor aeration and inadequate ferm temps is causing a major lag.

 

[TopherM]

If I want to make a starter with from a smack-pack, can I just scissor it open without smacking it and proceed as if I was making a starter from a vial?

You can use it either way. The "yeast nutrient" packs that you smack are really just like concentrated wort, so you want to put that liquid in with the starter as well, so you can smack and pour, or smack and pour and also pour in the yeast nutrient. It's just the same as DME/LME!!