what creates award winning beer

[BreezyBrew]

so I can have a great recipe and it will always turn out to be great beer? I don't have to sanitize anymore? sweet! :rockin:

What I was getting at there wasn't very well said lol. So if I forget roasted barley when I am making a stout, that would be a much bigger fkup than mashing a few degrees high or low (which is a process mistake).

There will always be fundamentals, which I consider in a different category than process. Sanitization would be a fundamental, as well as converting grain to sugar during the mash process which can happen at a wide temp range. Process would have you mash at a specific temp within that range... so an IPA I might always mash 148-152.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

What I was getting at there wasn't very well said lol. So if I forget roasted barley when I am making a stout, that would be a much bigger fkup than mashing a few degrees high or low (which is a process mistake).

There will always be fundamentals, which I consider in a different category than process. Sanitization would be a fundamental, as well as converting grain to sugar during the mash process which can happen at a wide temp range. Process would have you mash at a specific temp within that range... so an IPA I might always mash 148-152.

I caught what you were saying. I didn't put it across very well. I see process as important as recipe.

 

[GHBWNY]

If you really want to win the County fair ribbon wouldn't you make one pie.......?

Sure. ONE PIE... that is the product of perhaps years, if not generations, of making that "same" pie a thousand times, tweaking, changing, adding, subtracting, with different ingredients, times, equipment, conditions --- whatever it takes to get it to the point that at County Fair time, it appears it was just something that Aunt Bessie threw together on a whim one Saturday afternoon when she had nothing else to do.

 

[applescrap]

Sure. ONE PIE... that is the product of perhaps years, if not generations, of making that "same" pie a thousand times, tweaking, changing, adding, subtracting, with different ingredients, times, equipment, conditions --- whatever it takes to get it to the point that at County Fair time, it appears it was just something that Aunt Bessie threw together on a whim one Saturday afternoon when she had nothing else to do.

Fun! Could somebody who watched that person make a similar pie?

 

[cilestiok]

Fun! Could somebody who watched that person make a similar pie?

Not necessarily a blue ribbon award winning pie! But similar counts, right?

Cheers!

 

[Gameface]

Great beer can be made in a bunch of different ways.

Some don't put any special effort into aeration, toss a packet of dry yeast into the fermenter and put the fermenter in a place that doesn't seem all too hot and they very often get good, even very good, results.

But there are things you can do with your process to gain greater control over the outcome. And often certain processes require equipment that facilitates the use of said process. It can add control and flexibility, which doesn't necessarily mean quality. But it does mean that if you're trying to nail down a certain style or achieve a specific flavor that doesn't easily lend itself to extract recipe kit using a generic dry yeast, etc. you can combine processes and equipment to achieve what you're trying to achieve.

The great thing I've learned as a homebrewer is that beer doesn't just mean one thing. If it did we could all go down to the brew shop and pick up the standard recipe kit and all churn out fantastic beer without much in the way of equipment or concern about fermentation temps or specialty yeast strains.

In the end, what makes great beer is yeast. But it's up to us as brewers to push the yeast in the right direction to get the results we want out of it. However it is that you accomplish that is up to you.

 

[GHBWNY]

as stated before: process and recipe formulation have everything to do with what makes a great beer, not luck. luck runs out. it's personal taste that ultimately decides if your beer is great. some folks don't like stouts (heathens!), some folks don't like IPAs (more heathens!), some don't like sours (heathens to a slightly lesser degree). but it doesn't mean because any of the people (dirty dirty heathens!) don't like certain offerings that these beers aren't great to the people that drink/brew them. nailing down process will eliminate things like oxidation, skunking, infection, and yeast derived off flavors from stressed yeast. nailing down recipe formulation/quality ingredients will eliminate all sorts of flavors that don't seem to work well together and ingredient derived off flavors (usually perceived as a staleness and or twang). but in the end, it's what you taste and what you like. what truly makes a really good or great beer will depend on your personal taste profile. are you hitting what you're aiming for?

So, are you saying that, all things being equal, a great beer comes down to personal preference? And if that's the case, why is there a BJCP? Is it just so someone can hear someone else tell them how great their beer is and get a medal for it? Is it possible then that my beer, although it will never be judged, is potentially as great as one that has been? Just askin'.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

So, are you saying that, all things being equal, a great beer comes down to personal preference? And if that's the case, why is there a BJCP? Is it just so someone can hear someone else tell them how great their beer is and get a medal for it? Is it possible then that my beer, although it will never be judged, is potentially as great as one that has been? Just askin'.

sure. if what matters to you is that you are extremely pleased with it. if you're worried about what other people think of your beer, then go the BJCP route. I'm usually happy with what I brew and that's what counts for me. some of my beers may have been gold or silver winners if I cared enough to have them judged. but I won't know because I don't care about any of that jazz. and the way I see the BJCP is keeping the specific styles with-in guidelines.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

Um, I feel memory-deficient/challenged.

Ok back on topic. How come nobody's arguing glass or plastic yet?

the greatest spiced beer in the world? a friend of his, from a brewery no less, told him it was the greatest beer ever brewed? I made an awesome video as a homage to the greatest brew master of all time. his original video was deleted along with the thread. but you can get the point from mine though.

 

[paperairplane]

So a couple points, I'm a chef so I know what you mean about winging it. And it doesn't matter, until it does. Can I make chicken marsala with sweet vermouth or madeira - of course I can. Is it authentic, no.

I make a lot of beer that is too strong and too hoppy for style. I also go very low on esters in most cases. I serve my beer too cold and too carbonated. Because it's mine.

Great beer is clean - which means no flaws. Appropriate levels of esters, DMS, carbonation, etc. Great beer doesn't need time because it's "still a little green" - it never had the flaw in the first place.

Great beer is consistent - anyone can luck out on one batch. Making the same product repeatedly, while maintaining standards is tough.

Great beer is obviously great - I don't love Belgians and sours, but I sure as hell can appreciate a great version. When a beer is so good you like something you don't like, that's great.

So yes, you can make nice beer to drink that is whatever you want - and that's super cool. But say you want to make an Orval clone, there's ingredients you need and steps you have to take to get that result - and you can't half ass that.

As a chef - you can make mashed potatoes, but there's really only one way to make Puree de Pmme de Terre a la Robuchon.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

the greatest spiced beer in the world? a friend of his, from a brewery no less, told him it was the greatest beer ever brewed? I made an awesome video as a homage to the greatest brew master of all time. his original video was deleted along with the thread. but you can get the point from mine though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDA9qvaJpF8

You're telling me...

This is NOT the greatest beer in the world?

This is just a tribute? ;-)

 

[cjones]

You're telling me...

This is NOT the greatest beer in the world?

This is just a tribute? ;-)

bwhahahhahaha that made my night......

 

[applescrap]

So a couple points, I'm a chef so I know what you mean about winging it. And it doesn't matter, until it does. Can I make chicken marsala with sweet vermouth or madeira - of course I can. Is it authentic, no.

I make a lot of beer that is too strong and too hoppy for style. I also go very low on esters in most cases. I serve my beer too cold and too carbonated. Because it's mine.

Great beer is clean - which means no flaws. Appropriate levels of esters, DMS, carbonation, etc. Great beer doesn't need time because it's "still a little green" - it never had the flaw in the first place.

Great beer is consistent - anyone can luck out on one batch. Making the same product repeatedly, while maintaining standards is tough.

Great beer is obviously great - I don't love Belgians and sours, but I sure as hell can appreciate a great version. When a beer is so good you like something you don't like, that's great.

So yes, you can make nice beer to drink that is whatever you want - and that's super cool. But say you want to make an Orval clone, there's ingredients you need and steps you have to take to get that result - and you can't half ass that.

As a chef - you can make mashed potatoes, but there's really only one way to make Puree de Pmme de Terre a la Robuchon.

This is good

 

[Qhrumphf]

I read the first page or two, got bored. Read the last page. Laughed. Now I guess I have to read everything in between.

"great" or "award winning" beer is subjective depending on who's tasting (or judging) the beer. Recipe or process, it's both. If either is lacking, the beer will be lacking no matter what. If one is mediocre but the other strong, then a good beer can still be made. But for truly top notch beer, both have to be impeccable.

There's a lot more mistakes that can be made with process than with recipe. However, you can also set yourself up with a very consistent process that, while not tailored to each beer, will make passable beer under most circumstances, and then you're just dealing with grain and hop bill (always mash in at X qt per pound with X bottled water source at X temp strike for X temp mash for X time then sparge with X volume water at X temp and pitch X amount of yeast and ferment at X temp and so on and so forth). However, that'll make it hard to make truly great beer.

For me, as I know others have said, it's not making a great beer once. It's being able to make a great beer over and over and over every time and have it come out the same way every time. Otherwise, the great beer is a fluke and you as a brewer just got lucky, not because you're actually skilled at what you do.

As far as my points for "great" beer:

-Keep only as complicated as it needs to be. If you can't justify why something is there and what exactly it adds (or removes) from the beer, maybe it shouldn't be there. That goes for mash schedule, fermentation schedule, grain bill, hop schedule, adjuncts/spices/whatever, all of it.
-Key process points (pitching rate, temp control, aeration, sanitation).
-Tailor all brew parameters (water, mash, etc) for each beer, and the specific goal you're trying to achieve.
-Meticulous measurement and knowledge of your system. You want to be able to accurately predict that if you put X in you will get Y out. When you can brew an identical beer and have every single data point (first runnings, last runnings, mash temp and pH, boiloff, preboil gravity, post boil gravity, and so on and so forth) be identical every time, you're finally getting to the "good brewer" point.

 

[corkybstewart]

Technique beats recipe every time.

 

[applescrap]

-Meticulous measurement and knowledge of your system. You want to be able to accurately predict that if you put X in you will get Y out. When you can brew an identical beer and have every single data point (first runnings, last runnings, mash temp and pH, boiloff, preboil gravity, post boil gravity, and so on and so forth) be identical every time, you're finally getting to the "good brewer" point.

Have you done that wow! If I would open a brewery you are my brewer. I don't own a hydrometer and fit into you first part of post. Great stuff i look forward to rereading. ...bruce lee says in enter the dragon its like finger pointing at heaven look at finger miss heavenly glory

 

[GHBWNY]

the greatest spiced beer in the world? a friend of his, from a brewery no less, told him it was the greatest beer ever brewed? I made an awesome video as a homage to the greatest brew master of all time. his original video was deleted along with the thread. but you can get the point from mine though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDA9qvaJpF8

I have been on this forum for almost 2 years, seeking the Truth and Wisdom of the Greatest Brewers In the World. But one key ingredient has persistently eluded my grasp. I have searched the world over for this holy grail; I have scaled the highest mountain and plied the depths of the deepest ocean in my futile search. Until now...

It was not until happening upon your instructional video, brother, that I discovered the one true secret to making the best beer in the world, and I owe it all you! At the risk of divulging your deepest brewing secrets, but with all due credit going to you, I feel the rest of the world should know this also. So here goes...

The greatest beer in the world must have (and I quote),

"Effervescence snapping with snappiness".

I humbly beseech your blessing to use this as my new signature...

...as soon as my eyes clear long enough to do so.

 

[BreezyBrew]

Let's at least talk about something with a modicum of objectivity to it - award winning beer.

Agree. Repeatability must be in the equation somewhere. Improving an aspect of a particular recipe while keeping everything else the same is an important step to meet your goals.

As homebrewer, there's a lot of variances. Our LHBS may be out of an ingredient, and we have to make a substitution, source it from somewhere else, and risk a branding change or variations within a particular crop. Not all yeast strains are available throughout the year (if you don't harvest, etc.) Our equipment is generally less accurate than commercially made systems... pH meters come to mind. It may even come down to an extrinsic factor...
choosing a less expensive ingredient over another one even though you have always made it with X. Control of these variances shouldn't be neglected. Notes can be worth their weight in gold.

 

[cilestiok]

What really creates award winning beer is it the recipe or the method? Curious!

I just wanted to go back to the beginning before this thread turned into a mess... as these threads always do.

I don't think any decent brewer would discount the importance of recipe design, nor disrespect the intricacies of the brewing process. Not a single piece of my equipment, nor any of the ingredients I use have a measurable factor of "luck" in any of them so I refuse to believe that any beer could be made "award winning" by any amount of luck. The only way I could see "luck" being a factor is if your beer was "lucky" enough to be the only skillfully brewed example entered in your category.

We all could give percentages to recipe or process; 50:50, 60:40, 40:60, whatever... But at the end of the day, you can't make beer with only one or the other. It takes both a quality recipe made with quality ingredients, and proper process performed consistently to creat excellent, award winning beer every time.

 

[Psylocide]

Umm ok where did i say all that....i am not so scientific and yes you are somewhat over doing this arent you. ..this is home brew isnt it? I think you are a bully to. You dont know anything about me why i brew what i brew ... perhaps that would give you some perspective. ..im sorry if you dont think someone can make killer beer in a walmart tamale pot....imo somewhere along the line this is not the spirit of homebrew

I don't think he ever said that, fwiw. Lots of people running ghetto brew rigs making great beers. Focus less on the equipment, most people know you can make great beer on the cheap.

My brewing setup is less than $100, I grind grains in a blender, and have gotten nothing but good feedback on my brews. I think it's kind of weird to mention how cheap your setup is and then to say people look down on you for that, when nobody mentioned it. It's a bit of a defeatist attitude.

If you need feedback, look into a local club or do a homebrew trade, great way to get feedback and try someone else's beer. Win win.


Ghetto and loving it.

 

[kombat]

im sorry if you dont think someone can make killer beer in a walmart tamale pot....imo somewhere along the line this is not the spirit of homebrew

Of course they can. I'm simply saying it will not be as easy, or the resulting beer will not be as good, as beer created using superior equipment.

The converse would imply that anyone who spends money on the fancier equipment is either wasting their time/money or producing equal or inferior beer, both of which suggest the brewer possesses less intelligence than the one boasting to produce equivalent beer with equivalent ease using the inferior materials and equipment.

I.e., you're calling us stupid, albeit with strained spelling and grammar. And are surprised at the pushback. That says much more about you than it does us.

 

[applescrap]

Simply wanted to start a thread where debating what truly creates a good beer could have an open forum.... I'm still sticking with recipe but have enjoyed learning more about the process.

 

[Gameface]

Better equipment has nothing at all to do with making better beer.

Equipment enables process. If the equipment you have doesn't allow you to use the process you want to use then you need equipment that does. Or if the equipment you use is causing off flavors or harboring bacteria then you need equipment that doesn't do that.

Much of what "better" equipment does for me is makes brewing more enjoyable or a little less work. Like having a sight glass doesn't make beer better, but I wouldn't want to brew, using my process, without one. I also like using pumps, and it's not really optional in my eHERMS process. I could brew beer just as good (and I have) without the pumps, but I couldn't use the process I want to use. There are gains going to a process like eHERMS, but it doesn't automatically make beer better.

It's important to know what you're trying to accomplish, and what you're trying to avoid, when you determine what process you want to use.

The OP says he assumes we all know how to make beer, so it comes down to recipe. Well, sure, we all know that you introduce yeast into a sugary liquid and you get beer, but look around and you can see dozens if not hundreds of ways to get from point A to point B, and I'd suggest that not one of us is proficient in each and every method out there.

OP, I do a lot of cooking as well. When I make stew I don't open a recipe book, I've made stew several hundred times. I can make stew out of stuff I have laying around or I can make a shopping trip to buy the ingredients I want, and no matter which way I do it I know I'm gonna have some pretty delicious stew when I'm done. The last stew I made used bone broth that I made and it took 48hrs of simmering to get that bone broth. Did I need to put in all that work to make stew? No. But it was worth it, imho. I enjoyed it. I'm considering buying equipment specifically for making large batches of broth and rendering large quantities of tallow. I don't need special equipment, but since I want to make bone broth regularly I want to make the process more enjoyable.

Brew on!

 

[Qhrumphf]

Better equipment has nothing at all to do with making better beer.

Equipment enables process. If the equipment you have doesn't allow you to use the process you want to use then you need equipment that does. Or if the equipment you use is causing off flavors or harboring bacteria then you need equipment that doesn't do that.

Much of what "better" equipment does for me is makes brewing more enjoyable or a little less work. Like having a sight glass doesn't make beer better, but I wouldn't want to brew, using my process, without one. I also like using pumps, and it's not really optional in my eHERMS process. I could brew beer just as good (and I have) without the pumps, but I couldn't use the process I want to use. There are gains going to a process like eHERMS, but it doesn't automatically make beer better.

It's important to know what you're trying to accomplish, and what you're trying to avoid, when you determine what process you want to use.

The OP says he assumes we all know how to make beer, so it comes down to recipe. Well, sure, we all know that you introduce yeast into a sugary liquid and you get beer, but look around and you can see dozens if not hundreds of ways to get from point A to point B, and I'd suggest that not one of us is proficient in each and every method out there.

OP, I do a lot of cooking as well. When I make stew I don't open a recipe book, I've made stew several hundred times. I can make stew out of stuff I have laying around or I can make a shopping trip to buy the ingredients I want, and no matter which way I do it I know I'm gonna have some pretty delicious stew when I'm done. The last stew I made used bone broth that I made and it took 48hrs of simmering to get that bone broth. Did I need to put in all that work to make stew? No. But it was worth it, imho. I enjoyed it. I'm considering buying equipment specifically for making large batches of broth and rendering large quantities of tallow. I don't need special equipment, but since I want to make bone broth regularly I want to make the process more enjoyable.

Brew on!

This.

Fancy gear doesn't make beer any better. It just makes the process require less effort. If you can't make good beer without fancy equipment you will not make better beer with it (unless the labor is your only limiting factor).

I would love to have a fancy set up but i am broke and live in a small space. All my disposable income goes into ingedients. And I make some great beer on my ghetto rig. I invested a bit more money than the entry level LHBS options most homebrewers use with the critical ones- thermometer (Thermapen) and pH meter (Milwaukee MW101), but for the most part I use the cheap gear and manual labor. I have a pond pump for ice water for my chiller (homemade) because it's the only way I can chill in the summer. That's the only pump I use.

 

[applescrap]

Just a lid for your boil kettle, unless you ferment in buckets, then you need nothing additional.

Thanks i have plastic fermenter bucket one that is.....you use blender for grain does it mess it up...how do you do that. ....cool. i have them pre crack it so its always ready im sure someone will point out thats a problem but im not worried about it ill drink it and make more!

 

[applescrap]

This.

Fancy gear doesn't make beer any better. It just makes the process require less effort. If you can't make good beer without fancy equipment you will not make better beer with it (unless the labor is your only limiting factor).

I would love to have a fancy set up but i am broke and live in a small space. All my disposable income goes into ingedients. And I make some great beer on my ghetto rig. I invested a bit more money than the entry level LHBS options most homebrewers use with the critical ones- thermometer (Thermapen) and pH meter (Milwaukee MW101), but for the most part I use the cheap gear and manual labor. I have a pond pump for ice water for my chiller (homemade) because it's the only way I can chill in the summer. That's the only pump I use.

Yeah i could use an upgrade in thermometer im using grocery store digital never calibrated come to think of it...thermapen gold standard?

 

[Qhrumphf]

Yeah i could use an upgrade in thermometer im using grocery store digital never calibrated come to think of it...thermapen gold standard?

I'd say the Thermapen is the best brewing investment I've made. It's got drawbacks (probe length namely) but the accuracy is top notch. But it's pricy (about $100 normally, but you can often get it on sale)

 

[Yooper]

Play nice, or go to another playground.

Some of the posts weren't that bad- but still had an insult thrown in there.

Remember your manners. No more off-topic BS, and NO INSULTS. Period.

There will be no further warnings given. If you can't abide by the rules, you will not be on homebrewtalk.com.

 

[applescrap]

Im sorry for what i said and did ...thanks for the reminder to play nice and for deleting that embarrassing conversation

 

[applescrap]

I would like to reopen this discussion and also hope that it stays friendly.

perspective.............many have stated great beer is in the eye of the drinker that persons likes dislikes taste buds even biology etc...their perspective is the judge. in a competition the judges have categories i am sure they work from check lists and the like but ultimately they choose from their perspective. i am going to later post a scene from a jet li movie that i am reminded of where he is talking with another kung fu master about tea and the other guy has various tea and jet li states he doesnt care, well anyways he says it all comes from nature and that it doesnt judge itself that people judge and he doesnt want to do that...but importantly he says people choose different things....also that ones mood determines the quality.....basically if you are in a good mood any tea will do. I don't want to butcher the scene anymore and i am not even sure it is relevant but for some reason i have always remembered this as saying as i think the version i saw said in subtitile if you are with good friends and in a good mood anything will do.....

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7Rg0j1YD0w[/ame]

perspective..........this pumpkin beer i am drinking i made now 17 days ago and have been drinking since i force carbed it last friday. it cost me 22 dollars to make was made on wednesday night in 3.5 hours and was in my keg 10 days later. To me its good because it really is really, but also it was cheap required little time and equipment and keeps me drinking something better than the 16 gallons of coors sitting next to it. When compared with the beers made by many of the brewers of this very thread and this site it would not hold a candle. I am aware of that and am no fool but it is good based on my perspective because it was cheap and quick and required a little amount of effort. So what does make really really award winning good beer....the answers here are awesome and I am going to read them again and again looking for nuggets i can use. Recipes, equipment processes, i just learned about hopstands........i believe that will make a really big difference and that is a process and plausibily an equipment related factor. Which hops you whirlpool and how much is a recipe factor......

i am sorry i disrespected others views and perspectives and never wanted to do that also what i know well i know and what i dont know i dont know. and there is A LOT that i dont know about brewing just looking around this site (wish i would have before making too many comments). i think years of reading and talking about brewing without an outlet like this forum created some built up some feelings that came out. understanding my perspective will perhaps help understand what i think great beer is.....i brew to save money. I make all kinds of other stuff to...cinnamon rolls, pizza dough, smoked meats, and i do most my own plumbing and car repairs and stuff like that. I would like to think that we could all agree on the fact that if we are surrounded by friends and loved ones and are in a good mood that great beer might not actually need to be great because our perspective is so optimistic.

brew on

 

[The_Bishop]

I'd say the Thermapen is the best brewing investment I've made. It's got drawbacks (probe length namely) but the accuracy is top notch. But it's pricy (about $100 normally, but you can often get it on sale)

I've got one of these:

http://thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/rt610b_12+24.html

It's accurate, fast, and has a long probe.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I've got one of these:

http://thermoworks.com/products/low_cost/rt610b_12+24.html

It's accurate, fast, and has a long probe.

It's an improvement, but still has more than twice the tolerance of the Thermapen. If you're looking for conversion and ultimately making beer, being off by 1.8 degrees (the tolerance range in either direction) won't kill you unless you're at the absolute extremes of the enzymatic ranges (particularly on the high side). However, if you're going for consistency, then potentially being off by almost 2 degrees matters. The Thermapen is +/- 0.7, which is much tighter. Of course, they also offer the slower (and much more expensive) reference grade, which is a +/- 0.07 tolerance. Basically 10 times slower, 10 times more accurate, and twice the price.

 

[The_Bishop]

I understand what you're saying, but in reality the RT610B-12 gives me the same readings as my RT600C, which is +/- .9 degrees. The ice bath calibration shows perfect calibration on both units, too.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

it's accurate, fast, and has a long probe.

twss! :d

 

[applescrap]

In the end of the movie ratatouille the Critic goes to the restaurant and says for dinner he will have inspiration. The rat chooses ratatouille and everyone is shocked because it's a simple peasant dish the critic takes a bite of the ratatouille and remember himself as a young man feeling down and his mother served him ratatouille and he felt better and one bite of the ratatouille brought him back to that moment in an instant and overwhelmed him and his uptight notions and state of mind. The sense of smell can bring you memories of times and places in your life in milliseconds that a computer could never process.

Inspiration, I left the beer scene for a couple years and come back to find a local homebrewer here in Denver put graham crackers in a porter and a Fort Collins local brewery upset everyone because they bought The stores out of chocolate vampire cereal to make a beer. Cucumber and Kale habaneros and milk. Chocolate peanut butter balls and salty nuts with caramel everybody seemingly jumps on board the new but does it inspire. I know my children will have many scents and smells that inspire them whether it be a hot dog at a baseball game.... or the smell of smoking meat. What truly makes a great beer I think would have to be inspiration. Something that inspires you something you want to make something that matters whether it's the clearest beer ever seen the strongest or the one most likely to fit into the category that will win an award for you good beer inspires...

 

[applescrap]

Since no one else will post I will continue this thread in hopes that at least somebody out there enjoys it. I fell in love with breakside Brewery IPA I was told it won the GABF gold medal 2014... so I called them to find out how they made it. But digging deeper there are videos of the head brewmaster talking about brewing and also an interview with him discussing his past and how he views brewing... He claims process is key but he also states that his recipe is indeed his. He talks about the different people who touch the beer. In home brewing most likely only one or two people will touch the beer but at a brewery many people may touch it from the cellar guys to the bottlers. He is clear that with so many people touching the beer that a good recipe alone can't make it all the way through production and be what it was intended to be without process and good people. That being said he talks about German brewing and his experiences... I have been to Germany more than once and have tasted their beer and seen their culture and no doubt they are very precise in what they do. They even measure those huge beers exactly like it was gold on a scale. To him this exactness is key to his greatness and it makes me wonder about my process and I hope it makes you wonder about yours. A guy told me on this forum that when you hit your numbers and key data points over and over you are just starting to be good. I can't disagree with that but since I don't own a hydrometer and likely never will that's going to be hard for me. It's a good thing I'm not trying to produce 500000 beers a year that tastes exactly the same because my livelihood depends on it. The next two beers I brew are going to be founders Breakfast Stout clone and either that gram cracker Porter or a smash whirlpool type thing. And it may be another year until I brew them again so doing it the same way probably won't be possible just because I won't make the same thing again.... I am a home brewer and damn proud of it. But make no mistake if you want to be pro your process better be replicable..... and you better be able to find good people to help you because a hell of a lot of people are going to touch the beer.

 

[aeviaanah]

Award winning Brewers make award winning beers.

 

[drainbamage]

I don't own a hydrometer and likely never will

Why not?

 

[applescrap]

Thanks i really appreciate you asking the question! and is much better than the insults constantly thrown my way on this site because of my thinking that is outside the norm.... I'm going to try to make this about me without being insulting to others
I brew beer I drink it I do it again it's not some big trip to me that I obsess over and complicate. ..i dont make a big trip out of smoking meat or making ice cream either both i do regularly.
I brew to save money and I like variety. I basically do the same process every time so regardless of measurements it's always the same.
Grain is cheap if i want strong beers i add more and weaker less. I dont feel the need to measure anything as i have faith in the process. I go grain to glass in 10 days average so it doesnt really matter all that much because regardless of what a hydrometer says im going to keg it if i know the primary ferment is over with. I monitor the beer with my nose and eyes throughout the process. I can smell fermentation a mile away and have brewed so much that i trust how it looks when light is shined into bucket. I keep everything freakishly sanitized and dont want to risk any extra exposure of any kind along the way...in my early days i thought the beer used for testing was thrown away and that seemed silly to me i guess it is dumped back in? I taste the beer along the way and have been drinking microbeers for 22 years ... im from fort Collins and trust what i see taste...i have never needed one before so i dont see why i need one now....beer has been brewed for 7000 years without one and i want to honor that. Im a homebrewer not a pro and dont dream of owning a brewery. I try to get as much out of the grain as i can and thats all i can do even if i didint do well i gave it hell and dont need to measure that. I own one fermenting bucket one keg and 1 kettle I basically brew ferment keg drink and repeat. When i finally get setup in laundry room i might buy another fermenter so then i will have a better pipeline. I don't understand how owning one will make better beer and believe the more stuff dipped in the brew the worse. I dont trust cheap tools and would probably buy a refractometer or whatever if i really wanted to measure stuff. I saw a hydrometer once on store and thought three people could get 4 different results from it just a thought not saying its true. I have no need to replicate anything as my interests and tastes are always changing.

So hope i answered why and i hope some day people can respect what i think as i have chosen to respect overly pragmatic approaches.....i can say this if i did own a brewery i would be serious about dialing in numbers but then again i also wouldnt be brewing out of a bag

A question i want answered ...why do people react so hostility when price of equipment is brought up

 

[Billy-Klubb]

Thanks i really appreciate you asking the question! and is much better than the insults constantly thrown my way on this site because of my thinking that is outside the norm.... I'm going to try to make this about me without being insulting to others
I brew beer I drink it I do it again it's not some big trip to me that I obsess over and complicate. ..i dont make a big trip out of smoking meat or making ice cream either both i do regularly.
I brew to save money and I like variety. I basically do the same process every time so regardless of measurements it's always the same.
Grain is cheap if i want strong beers i add more and weaker less. I dont feel the need to measure anything as i have faith in the process. I go grain to glass in 10 days average so it doesnt really matter all that much because regardless of what a hydrometer says im going to keg it if i know the primary ferment is over with. I monitor the beer with my nose and eyes throughout the process. I can smell fermentation a mile away and have brewed so much that i trust how it looks when light is shined into bucket. I keep everything freakishly sanitized and dont want to risk any extra exposure of any kind along the way...in my early days i thought the beer used for testing was thrown away and that seemed silly to me i guess it is dumped back in? I taste the beer along the way and have been drinking microbeers for 22 years ... im from fort Collins and trust what i see taste...i have never needed one before so i dont see why i need one now....beer has been brewed for 7000 years without one and i want to honor that. Im a homebrewer not a pro and dont dream of owning a brewery. I try to get as much out of the grain as i can and thats all i can do even if i didint do well i gave it hell and dont need to measure that. I own one fermenting bucket one keg and 1 kettle I basically brew ferment keg drink and repeat. When i finally get setup in laundry room i might buy another fermenter so then i will have a better pipeline. I don't understand how owning one will make better beer and believe the more stuff dipped in the brew the worse. I dont trust cheap tools and would probably buy a refractometer or whatever if i really wanted to measure stuff. I saw a hydrometer once on store and thought three people could get 4 different results from it just a thought not saying its true. I have no need to replicate anything as my interests and tastes are always changing.

So hope i answered why and i hope some day people can respect what i think as i have chosen to respect overly pragmatic approaches.....i can say this if i did own a brewery i would be serious about dialing in numbers but then again i also wouldnt be brewing out of a bag

A question i want answered ...why do people react so hostility when price of equipment is brought up

I can respect that. I like to know what I'm getting out of my grain and want to be sure that my FG is stable before I bottle or keg. but if it works for you, happy awesome day.

on the point of "years of experience", I find it quite silly. personal taste is one thing, but that has nothing to do with years of experience.

people get hostile when equipment price is brought up because people tend to get arrogant about making great beer with cheap equipment. like any of us that spend a bit of money on our equipment are stupid for buying that "expensive crap" because they can do the same thing with their cheaper version. over the years I bought myself a heated/cooled conical, an AG cooler set-up, a quite decent mill, tri-clad brew pots, kegs, a chest freezer, and a temp controller. this in no way makes me a better brewer than someone that doesn't have the same stuff. nor does it make any other brewer better than me for "not wasting money" on what I have. some folks have elaborate set-ups, some have very modest, and some have in-between. it's all in the way we like to brew.