Water profile question

[sankenship]

Hi all - I've gotten to the point in my brewing where I want to start focusing on my water profile. I'm building the profile using distilled water. I'm using Bru'n water and following the Pale Ale profile to make a DIPA.

I have all the ingredients and I've built out the profile, but the thing that's hanging me up is the bicarbonate. According to Bru'n calculator Bicarbonate is generally undesirable in beer. The pale ale profile, however, lists target bicarbonate as 110 ppm. When I add the baking soda to get to the target range, my overall pH is 5.6. So, I'm using lactic acid to bring it down to 5.2 which brings the bicarbonate to -81. I'm so confused. I know I'm giving specific details about Bru'n water - but my general question I guess is - should I use baking soda in my water profile? If so should I also use lactic acid? Is having a negative bicarbonate number a bad thing? I show my alkalinity as -67. Is that bad?

Sorry for all the meandering and multiple questions. I just can't wrap my head around this water stuff...

Thanks a lot.

 

[zippybasher]

Try using some acid malt in your recipe to lower mash PH and keep your bicarbonate level around 100.

For my PA, IPA and DIPA I think I have finally nailed down that Pale ale profile that makes the Hops truly burst with flavor and not get muted or faded so quickly. My last two batches with this have been Awesome after searching for that one addition for over two years of sub standard brewing.

I am adding to RO water:
Gypsum - 1.5gram/gal Sparge and Mash water
Epsom Salt - .75gram/gal Sparge and Mash water
Calcium Chloride - .4gram/gal Sparge and Mash water
Baking Soda - .25gram/gal JUST MASH WATER
Pickling lime - .1gram/gal JUST MASH WATER

Profile as such is :
Calcium-136
Magnesium-19
Sodium-26
Sulfate - 299
Chloride - 55
Bicarb - 107
Cation - 9.5
Anion - 9.6
Hardness - 421
Alkalinity - 89
RA- -20
SO/CL - 5.5

Everything is within 10% of the pale profile

I will use this for any hop forward beer. It really made the difference with the Epsom baking soda and pickling lime. I was using CC and Gypsum and was not happy at all with the outcome. Hitting the correct ratios for ALL made a world of difference. Cheers!

 

[Qhrumphf]

Adding bicarbonate and then adding acid to counter bicarbonate is a waste of ingredients. I would only add bicarbonate if you need to raise the mash pH, which I doubt (and I'd guess if you want 5.2 you'll probably still need to add acid, but personally if I can get 5.3 or 5.4 without adding acid, I usually won't add acid just to keep things simple). Plus if you're upping the sulfates a lot I wouldn't want the sodium in there anyway.

 

[Yooper]

Adding bicarbonate and then adding acid to counter bicarbonate is a waste of ingredients. I would only add bicarbonate if you need to raise the mash pH, which I doubt (and I'd guess if you want 5.2 you'll probably still need to add acid, but personally if I can get 5.3 or 5.4 without adding acid, I usually won't add acid just to keep things simple). Plus if you're upping the sulfates a lot I wouldn't want the sodium in there anyway.

Agreed. Bicarbonate is only 'necessary' in that it can increase mash pH if needed. It's not needed at all, and not recommended to add it.

Leave out the baking soda, and see where you mash pH is. Negative RA is common, and it doesn't matter. What matter is your mash pH- you want about 5.4.

 

[sankenship]

Thank you all for the guidance. All posts were extremely helpful. I love this site...