Water Calculation?

[jgoodhart]

So, I’m trying my first brew starting with RO water. I’m new to water calculations and just want to try and keep it simple. I’ve read some info on the subject but, by no means do I understand the in’s and out’s. I’m making an American pale ale.

Recipe:

4lb 5oz pale malt (2 row)
4lb 5oz Pilsner (2 row)
1lb aromatic malt
1lb cara-pils/dextrin malt
1lb crystal-60 malt

1oz Columbus at 60 min.
.25oz Amarillo at 30 min.
.25oz cascade at 25 min.
.25oz Amarillo at 20 min.
.25oz cascade at 15 min.
.25oz Amarillo at 10 min.
.25oz cascade at 5 min.
.25oz Amarillo at flameout.
.25oz cascade at flameout.

California ale yeast.

Here is what I have so far for the water profile. I bought calcium chloride and gypsum at my brew shop. From reading what I’ve read on the subject, this is what I came up with. Any suggestions would be appreciated....or if I’m way off, a little help!

I’m also not sure about any acid additions for mash pH but EZ water states that the estimated pH will be 5.52. I did not buy any acid and do not have a meter. Can I accurately go off this? Thanks for the help!

 

[IslandLizard]

This looks fine to me, good to go. Without an accurate pH meter I would not change it.

Now for most (pale) ales I aim at a little lower mash pH, around 5.35. A small amount of Lactic acid (~1-3 ml) gets it there. Be careful, Lactic acid typically is 88% (by weight), so measure accurately. Phosphoric acid is typically sold at 10%, a little easier to measure, but that little bottle doesn't last very long.

I would mash a little thinner for better hydration, easier stirring, and potentially better conversion. I use a converted rectangular cooler and typically mash at 1.5 qts/pound and like what I get. That also comes out to mash and (total) sparge volumes being close, e.g., 4.5 gallons mash water and 4.8 gallons sparge water. I batch sparge 2x with about half the sparge volume each, not critical.

 

[IslandLizard]

1oz Columbus at 60 min.
.25oz Amarillo at 30 min.
.25oz cascade at 25 min.
.25oz Amarillo at 20 min.
.25oz cascade at 15 min.
.25oz Amarillo at 10 min.
.25oz cascade at 5 min.
.25oz Amarillo at flameout.
.25oz cascade at flameout.

This is a typical "old school" Pale Ale hop schedule. You can keep it as is, or modernize it for more "in your face" hop flavor and aroma. If you feel up to it, move the first 4 hop additions to 5 minutes (time left in the boil). Then at flameout start chilling right away down to 170F (or 160F) and add the latter 4 as "whirlpool/hop stand" hops. Let them steep for 30' stirring every 5 minutes or so. Keep kettle covered during this.

In that scenario, you need a little more Columbus (~.5 oz) to retain your planned IBUs.

Are you planning to dry hop?

 

[IslandLizard]

California ale yeast.

WLP001/WY056? Did you or are you going to make a starter?

 

[jgoodhart]

Thanks lizard. I may be able to come across some acid prior to Friday. One more question. Can I add all the salts to the total volume of water and then divide for mash/sparge? Is there anything against treating the whole volume at once with what I have on the spreadsheet? Thanks.

 

[jgoodhart]

Yes, I have a starter going right now

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks lizard. I may be able to come across some acid prior to Friday. One more question. Can I add all the salts to the total volume of water and then divide for mash/sparge? Is there anything against treating the whole volume at once with what I have on the spreadsheet? Thanks.

Calcium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate and Lactic Acid are your main mash water chemicals.
A pinch of (kosher) salt or a little Epsom salt may sometimes be used, mostly by choice. Baking Soda is only occasionally added to the mash to balance/restrain excess acid, so the pH doesn't drop too low. Minerals are sometimes added to "mimic" a region's water profile, although we should also know how they "treat" their water before they're actually brewing with it, which is not always commonly known.

Can I add all the salts to the total volume of water and then divide for mash/sparge? Is there anything against treating the whole volume at once with what I have on the spreadsheet?

If you heat all your brewing water at once, there's not much choice, although you could add them to the mash tun before adding the grain and make sure they are well dissolved. When dividing mineral additions between mash and sparge water, your mash water's mineral charge will drop by about 50%. There's a row in EZ Water to count for minerals added to the sparge, so you add their portions there and see what happens to your mash pH.

Generally, RO water is the most perfect water for sparging, as is, it has zero buffering capacity. Sometimes when you want to add a lot of minerals (e.g., NEIPAs, Burtons) splitting them is easier to keep the mash pH in range. Now you can always add the extra needed minerals to the wort in the kettle, instead...

 

[jgoodhart]

Ok. So if I am understanding correctly, because I’m using RO water, I can add the 7 grams gypsum and 3.8 grams cal. Chloride to the mash from the start with zero additions made to the sparge water? That’s what I was going with initially but wanted to make sure that’s how it works. Also, I’ve not tried this before so, from your previous statement, I need to dissolve the minerals in hot water..ie-when mash water is hot prior to adding my grains?
Lastly, I ran to another small brew shop and picked up citric acid (all they had) and some pH test strips. Will this work and how much should I use to get to a lower mash pH? Is there a formula for citric acid?

 

[IslandLizard]

Ok. So if I am understanding correctly, because I’m using RO water, I can add the 7 grams gypsum and 3.8 grams cal. Chloride to the mash from the start with zero additions made to the sparge water? That’s what I was going with initially but wanted to make sure that’s how it works. Also, I’ve not tried this before so, from your previous statement, I need to dissolve the minerals in hot water..ie-when mash water is hot prior to adding my grains?
Lastly, I ran to another small brew shop and picked up citric acid (all they had) and some pH test strips. Will this work and how much should I use to get to a lower mash pH? Is there a formula for citric acid?

Dissolve your brewing salts when you're starting to heat your strike water. Gypsum dissolves much easier in cold water than hot. All other brewing salts dissolve easily at any temp.
Yes, preferably use pure RO water (or any other soft, low alkalinity chlorine/chloramines-free water) for sparging. Salts maybe added if needed.

Forget the pH strips, return them. They are notoriously inaccurate and about impossible to read. They won't tell you much of anything you don't know yet.

Not many brewers use Citric acid in beer as it can leave a detectable flavor when used in larger quantities. Lactic and Phosphoric are most commonly used, although (food grade) Sulphuric (H2SO4) or Muriatic acid (HCl) can be used too. As always, when working with (concentrated) acids be careful and keep safely away from anyone else.

Not sure how much Citric Acid you'd need. I don't think you need any acid, a mash pH of 5.52 is fine for now if you want to keep it simple.

Read some of this sticky on the Brew Science Forum about water chemistry.
Do a search for citric acid with or without mash in that forum or elsewhere. You may find some equivalent dosages.

 

[jgoodhart]

Thanks. Appreciate all the help!

 

[logdrum]

Your Carapils should be listed as a crystal malt, (1.3-1.5L) which will drive down the pH. Also seems like way too much C-60 IMHO.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Your Carapils should be listed as a crystal malt, (1.3-1.5L) which will drive down the pH. Also seems like way too much C-60 IMHO.

EZ Water assigns a DI_pH of 5.21 to 1.5L Carapils, but an inquiry I made to Briess informed me that it has a nominal 5.50 DI_pH. EZ Water assigns way too much acid to Carapils. And I don't believe it is alone in doing this.

But then again, I just noticed that it under-acidifies 60L caramel/crystal, so perhaps all is relative in a chaotic system where one error can occasionally work to offset another error.

 

[logdrum]

EZ Water assigns a DI_pH of 5.21 to 1.5L Carapils, but an inquiry I made to Briess informed me that it has a nominal 5.50 DI_pH. EZ Water assigns way too much acid to Carapils. And I don't believe it is alone in doing this.

But then again, I just noticed that it under-acidifies 60L caramel/crystal, so perhaps all is relative in a chaotic system where one error can occasionally work to offset another error.

Yeah, I'm not familiar w/ EZ Water, just noticed he had the Carapils as base and thought that might throw the calculation. I still thinks it's too much C-60 tho!

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Yeah, I'm not familiar w/ EZ Water, just noticed he had the Carapils as base and thought that might throw the calculation. I still thinks it's too much C-60 tho!

As a base malt EZ Water is assigning 5.70 DI_pH to Carapils. The error is in the opposite direction, but it is not as severe as the EZ Water error when one properly selects caramel/crystal for Carapils.

The fix for EZ Water is to go to the far right where the "default" DI_pH's are assigned, and enter the fields and put in your own DI_pH values, rather than accepting the defaults.

 

[IslandLizard]

4lb 5oz pale malt (2 row)
4lb 5oz Pilsner (2 row)
1lb aromatic malt
1lb cara-pils/dextrin malt
1lb crystal-60 malt

I still thinks it's too much C-60 tho!

I agree, these conventional, "old school" Pale Ale recipes include way too much in flavor products. The pound of aromatic (~8%) is about 2x anyone would want in any beer and really doesn't belong in a Pale Ale. Similarly for the pound of C60 (~8%), and even the Carapils.

Not even sure why half the base malt is Pilsner, it would make a case for a 90' boil instead of 60'.

 

[schematix]

Put the carapils in the trash. Not worth free.

 

[IslandLizard]

Put the carapils in the trash. Not worth free.

I think using 1/2 pound would be OK. If the ingredients haven't been bought, milled and mixed yet, we could supply a better Pale Ale base, sure. That may not be the case here...