Water before grains or vice versa

[vrodbrad]

Good morning all, I have a question and want some others insight.

I just happened to be reading my How to Brew book this morning and John Palmer says when you go to mash in add the water to the grain not vice versa of adding grain to the mash water. I have been adding the grain to the water and stirring during that time as not to get dough balls. so here is my question.

1. does adding the water to the grain make a noticble difference in the process i.e efficency.

2. does adding the grain to the water shock the grain and create off flavors that you might not want.

3. dang I forgot what third question was.

Anyone with doing both ways I would like better understanding and if adding the water to the grain is the better way to go then that is how I will start.

 

[kh54s10]

IMO, it doesn't matter. I put the water in the tun then dump in all the grain then stir until all the dough balls are gone.

 

[forstmeister]

I like to heat the mash water up about 5 degrees above strike temp and add it to the mash tun to preheat it. Then I add the grains once the water has cooked to strike temp. I know a lot of home brewers do it this way with good results. I think it mostly has to do with dough balls and proper mixing of the mash.

 

[IslandLizard]

Last time I tried a slightly different mash technique by starting with a lowish water to grain ratio (0.75!) and then adding more hot water until you reach the mash temperature. What a disaster! I had more dough balls than ever before and it took me half an hour to get the temperature evenly throughout. Never had that many and such persistent hot spots. The thermometer was all over the place.

With that "alternative" method you also add all the grist to hot strike water, but a smaller amount than you want to end up with, when completely mashed in. So it starts really thick, and that is a problem.

I imagine you would get a similar problem if you start with a tun full of grist and add water to it: cold dough balls and hot spots!

So I'm back to the trusty old method. Start with enough strike water of the calculated temperature for a 1.25-1.5 water to grist ratio, and add your grist to that. That allows you to mix well and quickly! Then adjust from there.

 

[acidrain]

Same here...
Direct fired tun, calculate water needed, heat to pre-strike temp, add grist, stir like hell.

 

[Roadie]

I don't think it matters but it just seems easiest to add grain to the water to avoid dry pockets.

 

[shawnbou]

I like to heat the mash water up about 5 degrees above strike temp and add it to the mash tun to preheat it. Then I add the grains once the water has cooked to strike temp. I know a lot of home brewers do it this way with good results. I think it mostly has to do with dough balls and proper mixing of the mash.

This.

It may take a few extra minutes to cool down to strike temp, but this way you know the mash tun is preheated so you won't lose more heat. And you can stir the water vigorously to help it cool faster.

Any dough balls with this method seem to come from pouring too much grain in at once and are very loose, can be broken up very easily.

 

[motorneuron]

Water before grain, feel the pain. Grain before water, now you got her!



Other candidates: never hotter; empires totter; Harry Potter; endless slaughter; police blotter; feed an otter; why do I bodder...

I don't know if it actually matters. I always do grain first.

 

[Speedbird]

I've only done one AG batch. Had all the grains in the tun, poured 3.3 gal water at 164* right in, and it dropped immediately to 152 for mashing. I only lost 1* over a 60 min mash in the 10 gal cooler. Then did 2 batch sparges each 1.6 gal. I drained the last sparge until I reached pre boil volume and gravity. I've never heard about thermal shock that some people mention here tho. Came out great! And right on target Pre boil OG, post boil, and FG.

Does adding water slowly and mixing it in lead to a better efficiency? My efficiency came out to about 73 or 74. All gravity values and temps were exactly what Beersmith said they would be.

 

[jrgtr42]

I do both (yeah, I'm weird)
I usually add about half my water at approximate strike temp, then the grains. Stir well to get as much wet as possible, then add the rest. I'll add about 3/4 of the rest, and take temp. I'll then add hot or cold water as needed to get to my desired mash temp and volume.

 

[vrodbrad]

Thanks for your input guys, and I think I will stay with easier way by adding the grain to the strike water.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Adding grain first could lead to a more compacted grain bed as well. I think I did that by accident once. Harder to mixup felt like dry mud at first.

 

[Demus]

Do what works for you; neither method will hurt or help efficiency. Unless of course you end up with dough balls, which will of course hurt efficiency. I use a 10 gallon round Igloo cooler and find it easier to fill it with my strike water heated to about 12 degrees over desired mash temp and then stir in the grain. Never a dough ball and dead on mash temp when I'm done...

 

[declanhalpin]

Or the third option, which works like a charm. Get a buddy to pour in the grain as you pour the water from the opposite side of the tun. "Cross the streams" and you almost don't have to mix at all. I've done it dozens of times and its great.

 

[tgmartin000]

Water first, into a pre-heated mash tun. I add the grains about 1/4 of the bag at a time and stir in between to get a good dough in.

 

[Arrheinous]

Add the water first, then the grains.

If you add the grains first then the low water-grain ratio when first adding the hot water will cause the grains to bind up into dough balls. The inside of them will be dry and you won't be able to convert/extract sugars.

 

[BrewinBromanite]

Or the third option, which works like a charm. Get a buddy to pour in the grain as you pour the water from the opposite side of the tun. "Cross the streams" and you almost don't have to mix at all. I've done it dozens of times and its great.

+1. I do this most of the time. Works great if you have a buddy to help out.

 

[BrewinBromanite]

Water first, into a pre-heated mash tun. I add the grains about 1/4 of the bag at a time and stir in between to get a good dough in.

+1. I do this sometimes as well. The key here is not adding too much grain all at once. Add a bit of grain, stir like hell, repeat until mixed well. I don't add more grain between steps until the last addition is completely mixed. Works great.