OP
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applescrap
Be the ball!
Yep. I am so freaking lazy. Like I mean come on how hard is it. I cleared out some room in my fridge so maybe in the future ill cold crash and fine.
Warm Fermented Lager Thread
- Thread starter applescrap
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Update on my last one; the weird "quinine-y" aftertaste has faded and now it's just a deliciously crisp beer. Not as clear as the last one but I don't care.
![20180722_101529[1].jpg](https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/data/attach/520/520920-20180722-101529-1-.jpg "20180722_101529[1].jpg")
Also one of the few brews I've done that gives a wicked hangover for some reason. No fusels I can discern but I woke up in hell this morning after a few pints last night. Hair of the dog it is then!
Beer666
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Just done another Pilsner using MJ54. It got up to 27c near the end and i was a bit worried but sample was very clean and looked clear before i added the gelatin. I should be drinking it in a few days with any luck. Next i am going to try out the other mangrove jacks lager yeast at ale temps and see what happens.
iahebert
Well-Known Member
Just bottled my first warm ferment. After cold crashing 2 weeks at 34, it was crystal clear, and hydro tasted great. Can't wait until it's carbed up. Came in at 5.8%. How freakin awesome!
radwizard
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First off, I just want to say thanks for the contributors in this thread. I have been lurking it for a while and it really has become a great read with solid information. I saw Applescrap take quite the thrashing for starting warm fermented lager discussion in a previous thread - so kudos for sticking with it!!
I just brewed up my "Rustic Lager" with Mecca Grade malts and Imperial's Cable Car Yeast. I'm pretty sure the yeast is the same or simular to the Mangrove Jacks yeast that people are using. I fermented at 64, and the beer came out fantastic! I hope 64 f isn't to cold for the thread, I am pretty excited to continue my quest for the perfect anti-lager.
I was wondering if anybody had any thoughts about the Brulosophy blend that is offed at Bootleg Biology. There is another strain at Bootleg called S. Arlingtonesis (it is a wild strain) that looks pretty darn appealing for a lager as well.
I am also curious to ferment some Kviek strains at normal ale temps to create a Lager-type beer. Hopefully this is not to off topic, as this is a thread about fermenting lager strains - it just seems like this is the place to ask about unconventional Lagers.
Thoughts?
I just brewed up my "Rustic Lager" with Mecca Grade malts and Imperial's Cable Car Yeast. I'm pretty sure the yeast is the same or simular to the Mangrove Jacks yeast that people are using. I fermented at 64, and the beer came out fantastic! I hope 64 f isn't to cold for the thread, I am pretty excited to continue my quest for the perfect anti-lager.
I was wondering if anybody had any thoughts about the Brulosophy blend that is offed at Bootleg Biology. There is another strain at Bootleg called S. Arlingtonesis (it is a wild strain) that looks pretty darn appealing for a lager as well.
I am also curious to ferment some Kviek strains at normal ale temps to create a Lager-type beer. Hopefully this is not to off topic, as this is a thread about fermenting lager strains - it just seems like this is the place to ask about unconventional Lagers.
Thoughts?
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
Brewed up an Oktoberfest today.
Sprinkled in S-189 at 71F because I'm a bad-ass.
I have it chilling to 65-66F.
Thanks again everyone!
@radwizard
Kveik yeast for a lager doesn't seem that exciting to me, aside from the novelty of using a Kveik strain. Could be nice though if it still ferments crazy fast and drops clear quickly. I'm sure some other folks have run it at ale temps; have you found any reports?
Looks like S. arlingtonesis needs normal lager yeast temps. What's unconventional/unique about it?
Sprinkled in S-189 at 71F because I'm a bad-ass.
I have it chilling to 65-66F.
Thanks again everyone!
@radwizard
Kveik yeast for a lager doesn't seem that exciting to me, aside from the novelty of using a Kveik strain. Could be nice though if it still ferments crazy fast and drops clear quickly. I'm sure some other folks have run it at ale temps; have you found any reports?
Looks like S. arlingtonesis needs normal lager yeast temps. What's unconventional/unique about it?
OP
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applescrap
Be the ball!
Thanks radwizard. Means a lot, really. Man, i took a pummeling in there didnt i? Pretty sure i got the last laugh though, [emoji2] . As far as i am concerned nothings off topic in here other than being a richard or wanting to debate warm fermenting. So cool to see this thread grow and your experimentations sound awesome. Wish i was more familiar with some of the brews you are mentioning. And i agree, the thread really is about unconventional fermenting. I need to look those syles up!
I cant believe the lager still hasnt cleared. Its been a long time. Aggressive biab squeezing, and shorter boils, i cant help but think are somewhat to blaim. So good and refreshing. I might brew a very light beer next, super low alcohol and some adjunct to thin it out too. Sounds refreshing.
How do you think aggressive bag squeezing can affect the clarity?
Speaking of unconventional, I will brew a raw warm lager soon
This time I will use the kettle as the fermenter as well and will hear it up to 75c to give contamination no chance.
I will also directly sprinkle the yeast on top for the same reason.
radwizard
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From what I have gathered, S Arlingtonesis works well at 60-70, but can ferment even at lower temps. I don't have much info on it other then a few reviews that sounded nice. From what I understand it is a wild Saccharomyces strain. I am mainly just curious about it. I will probably ferment it around 64f.
As far as Kviek goes, I don't really have any reports from anyone who actually tried to make a clean lager hybrid from it. I have read the description that it ferments clean at normal ale temps. I have used it (Voss) at the higher temps in IPAs, and Saison-type stuff and had success. The time frame of fermentation is something I am curious about. Another bonus is having a true work horse yeast around that I could produce multiple styles with by changing pitching rates and fermentation temp.
As far as Kviek goes, I don't really have any reports from anyone who actually tried to make a clean lager hybrid from it. I have read the description that it ferments clean at normal ale temps. I have used it (Voss) at the higher temps in IPAs, and Saison-type stuff and had success. The time frame of fermentation is something I am curious about. Another bonus is having a true work horse yeast around that I could produce multiple styles with by changing pitching rates and fermentation temp.
TANSTAAFB
Well-Known Member
My Anti-Altbier (supposed to be an ale fermented at lager temps, I made it with a lager yeast fermented at ale temps [emoji16]) is doing just fine. The starters just took a while to get going but last I checked the 34/70 had taken it from 1060 to about 1016. Much higher finishing gravity than I was expecting but it is right on for the expected attenuation for the strain. I bumped it to 70 to try and pull a couple more points out of it. I'll cold crash it this weekend and keep y'all posted!
I know people mainly use 34/70 for warm fermenting lagers but it would be good to get a list of all of the yeast strains people have tried, either successfully or unsuccessfully as it may be.
I have only tried 34/70 but it would be good to know if others have had success with other strains.
I have only tried 34/70 but it would be good to know if others have had success with other strains.
Mate, you have the list right in front of your nose including personal failures and successes.
This thread.
Read it
Little hint, we are mostly past 3470, current best bet is mangrove jack California lager.
I am currently fermenting it at above 30c uncontrolled in the UK... Going to be interesting to see what's going to happen. But it is a raw ale, so naturally a bit different.
Mate, you have the list right in front of your nose including personal failures and successes.
This thread.
Read it
Little hint, we are mostly past 3470, current best bet is mangrove jack California lager.
I am currently fermenting it at above 30c uncontrolled in the UK... Going to be interesting to see what's going to happen. But it is a raw ale, so naturally a bit different.
I have read through the 16 pages that's why I said I know people mainly use 34/70
I thought it might be helpful to have a running list for people to update for those who might just look in and not be subscribed to the thread...
RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
Post 501I have read through the 16 pages that's why I said I know people mainly use 34/70
I thought it might be helpful to have a running list for people to update for those who might just look in and not be subscribed to the thread...
InspectorJon
Well-Known Member
This fascinates me. I have read pretty much the whole thread. The best I can do on my budget for temperature control is a water bath and periodically changing ice gel packs. I live in a hot part of California where we don't have basements. I am planning to make a 1.5 gallon batch of California Common and then use the yeast cake to pitch into a 4 gallon batch of Doppelbock (5 gallon fermenter). The only Cali Common yeast my LHBS has is Wy2112 which is only suppose to attenuate at 69%. That leaves me at an estimated FG of 26 (OG 80), which seems pretty high. Might this attenuate better seeing as I will ferment at 65-70 degrees? I'd like to get FG down in at least the low 20s.
I get a pretty reliable 75% attenuation with WY2112 when fermented in the 65 to 70 range.
I looked back but i may have missed this, what style or recipe is this one? Looks so awesome, I'm planning to attempt a warm fermented lager next weekend and am trying to find something to brew, that isnt overly complicated as my lhbs doesnt stock much. With football starting up i figured now was the best time.
Or does anyone has a pilsner recipe they use frequently and wouldn't mind sharing? I don't have any hops on had, so i'll pick those up. I tend to like the fruity type hops vs spicy or noble.
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Beer666
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I brewed a lager style beer with Voss kveik, low IBU pale malt and saaz and was not very nice. Took ages to condition and although no off flavours was completely bland. Did not drink it. The yeast was fine as used the same for a RIS. Went back to kolsch yeast until i discovered MJ54.
95% Rahr Pilsen
5% Carafoam
1 oz hallertau mittelfrueh 60 min
1 oz hallertau mittelfrueh 15 min
1 oz hallertau mittelfrueh 5 min
1 pack 34/70
2 oz hallertau mittelfrueh Dry Hop
I am a hop head through and through and this only attempt at a lager so far. Classic noble taste with hints of lager yeast. Really tasty IMO. @applescrap Has a recipe for a Citra Pilsner on this thread I think.
ramjam
Hopfen und Malz Gott erhalts
just tried my pilsner in which i used the s23 it turned out pretty tasty, i do believe i prefer the 34/70 though, i ended up doing a SMASH with pils malt and hallertau hops rather than the mosaic
Since I've started brewing these I've constantly had one on tap (about 3 months now). I just had to take the last one off tap, life got in the way so I couldn't brew another one, and the last of this one is going to get bottled and entered in the Washington State Fair next weekend. It is killing me that it's sitting there in the kegerator and I can't have any!!! I've got other stuff on tap but this one is truly delicious. It doesn't fit in the American Lager classification (it's a bit maltier than Bud or Coors) so it's going in as an International. Should be a small class so I might get something...is what I think in my positive moments. I too am eternally grateful I found this thread and learned that this style isn't limited to those with fancy fermentation fridges (even though I have one). I usually have two beers going at once so being able to ferment a lager at ale temps is fantastic.
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OP
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applescrap
Be the ball!
I am pretty sure that was bock. I try to use the best recipes i can find and never make my own. A little tired of looking i came across brewing classic styles by palmer and zainasheff. Every recipe iirc is claimed to be an award winner. While that might be a stretch its an awesome reaource for a recipe in every style in extract too. I splashed out the 10 dollars or whatever on kindle and boom there were the recipes, pilsner, bock, dunkel. The bock is a great recipe. I like dunkels too. Really appreciate the kind comments all.
I guess its not entirely true that i dont make my own recipes because i use whats on hand and that means some variation on recipe. Like the citra pilsner. Citra pilsner is an interesting beer. This golden promise lager i am drinking now is really good. Golden promise might be worth it. I would like to make a more traditionally hopped pilsner, more german style so to speak but need to stretch boil out to really do it right i think. For something with a lot of late hops, not so important.
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OP
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applescrap
Be the ball!
Not sure, but i just saw a brulosophy xbmt on biab vs no sparge i think, and the squeezed bad was cloudier. Short boil and aggressive squeeze i think makes for a cloudier beer. I reallybatir aggressively and squeeze with a pot lid the bags through a collander into a bucket. With a sparge that makes two squeezes. Love to talk about squeezing sacks. Hows the raw lager coming along? Love the kettle ferment. I would too but i am getting to old to carry 11 gallons downstairs. Starting to even want help lifting it to dump in fermenter.How do you think aggressive bag squeezing can affect the clarity?
Speaking of unconventional, I will brew a raw warm lager soon
This time I will use the kettle as the fermenter as well and will hear it up to 75c to give contamination no chance.
I will also directly sprinkle the yeast on top for the same reason.
Thanks for the response, I'm thinking I'll just do 10 pounds of whatever pilsner malt the lhbs has, .5# carapils and enough rakau at 60 to get me to 30ibu, maybe a oz at flameout and chill. Wanted to use my new 1/4 barrel sanke keg to ferment but it won't fit in my cool brewing bag. Condo stays around 73-75 ambient and I'm worried that will be too warm with 34/70
Interesting. I have no idea how this could be explained. Short boil for sure, but no idea about the squeezing.
When I left home on Friday, it was heavily fermenting, I could hear it. At 30 degrees Celsius... Bloody heatwave, this was not the plan
Let's see how it will end up. Esther bomb or not!
Ps I would also not want to carry an 11 gallon kettle. Mine is something around three or four, that's why I can do it.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
30 degrees Celsius... Bloody heatwave, this was not the plan
kveik lager has to be the way forward....
Uhhhhh that is a really good idea! I forgot that I got some kveik in my fridge!
This won't work as a lager as it has too much of a distinctive flavour on it's own, but it works very well as an ipa/pale ale, maybe I will test it this time only using saaz, I got a lot of it and the yeast and bacterias can really shine this way. Now I have to choose which one to brew next... saison or kveik. Or both? Actually, the Kveik is such an agressive beast, it should be done within a few days at the current temperature. Maybe I will just throw it in between
Edit: OK I will brew a Smash Kveik, MO with Saaz
Every lemon-ish falvour will be coming only from the kveik.
Manufacturedevolution
Cooper
Kegged my amber today. The sample tasted amazing! I'm super stoked about this one. It was in the fermentor for a month at ambient temps around 72. So clean and malt forward. I already know I'll be doing this one again.
Uhhhhh that is a really good idea! I forgot that I got some kveik in my fridge!
This won't work as a lager as it has too much of a distinctive flavour on it's own, but it works very well as an ipa/pale ale, maybe I will test it this time only using saaz, I got a lot of it and the yeast and bacterias can really shine this way. Now I have to choose which one to brew next... saison or kveik. Or both? Actually, the Kveik is such an agressive beast, it should be done within a few days at the current temperature. Maybe I will just throw it in between
Edit: OK I will brew a Smash Kveik, MO with Saaz
I've started drinking the kveik pale ale I brewed last month. Just pale ale malt, Dr Rudi for bittering and Cascade for flavor/aroma. I fermented it at room temperature, whatever that was. Fermentation was extremely fast. The final beer has no yeast character (that's not necessarily a bad thing) and very little hops aroma. This was a kind-of low gravity beer; it's about 4.8% ABV.
I am stoked by how fast Voss Kveik fermented and how clean it is. I'm going to try it again next in a 6.8% ale with a lot of Cascade dry hops. And maybe use a heating pad and temperature controller to get the temp up around 85 or 90 for the first few days.
I think that the main character from "real" Kveik (the mixture of all kind of MOs, not just one isolated yeast strain) comes from the bacteria. I do not know what those bacteria eat, but they do not cause sourness and they do not cause overattenuation when bottles got infected with it.
I got a real kveik from norway and after I brewed in one fermenter, I did not clean it enough, so the following warm lager got infected with it. First two weeks in the bottle it was almost not noticable but after a few more weeks it developed this typical kveik taste, without further attenuation.
Surely interesting stuff!
davidabcd
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When I told the guy who gave me my brewing equipment that I couldn't make a lager because I didn't have the equipment, he said, "Sure you can. I've been making them for years." The steps he took were 72 for fermentation, then a "cool place" if you have one!
Now, I can't say whether I like lager beer or not because I've only had the usual ones.
Back in the day, since I lived so close to Canada (I live even closer now), my brothers and I would pick up cases of Molson Golden and a couple others. I think it tasted better 30 years ago then now but I could be wrong.
Now, I can't say whether I like lager beer or not because I've only had the usual ones.
Back in the day, since I lived so close to Canada (I live even closer now), my brothers and I would pick up cases of Molson Golden and a couple others. I think it tasted better 30 years ago then now but I could be wrong.
Those bacteria eat juniper, of course!
I have no idea what real kveik and sahti taste like, I'm just excited to find a yeast I can pitch at 80° (because my sucky immersion chiller has trouble going below that even in winter) and then ferment at 70° for a clean profile, or 90°+ to get some alleged citrus-fruitiness. The attenuation was good enough I think it might be a good candidate for a mock-lager, but the recipe will need some adjustments -- extrapolating from just one datapoint, you'll need more finishing hops. But lagers tend to have subtle hops anyway (don't they?)
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Depends on your kveik - Hothead/Stranda is meant to be pretty clean.
The bacteria are part of thestory for some kveik mixes but not all of them.
The bacteria are part of thestory for some kveik mixes but not all of them.
I was just checking my kveik yeast which I store in a plastic bottle in the fridge since half a year. Just collected the slurry, did nothing more too it.
Huge pressure on it, it slowly continued fermenting whatever residual sugar was left in there. Haha, dangerous stuff!
Huge pressure on it, it slowly continued fermenting whatever residual sugar was left in there. Haha, dangerous stuff!
Beer666
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Kegged my 4th warm lager last week fermented with MJ54. I think i must of sucked up some yeast as this one is not as clear as the others. Its 6.5% so might need a week or so to condition but tastes great already. The beer before that was a hoppy lager and came out superb. Cheers.
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cajunbrewer14
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Question.... To understand this correctly, I'm still fairly new to brewing
I ferment at lager at 70-72 degrees for 3 weeks
I bottle, can i let bottles get to 75-76 degrees?
after 3 weeks in bottle do i stick in the fridge?
Also has anyone warm fermented a Festbier?
I ferment at lager at 70-72 degrees for 3 weeks
I bottle, can i let bottles get to 75-76 degrees?
after 3 weeks in bottle do i stick in the fridge?
Also has anyone warm fermented a Festbier?
got a recipe to share? i love sam black. just never seem to see it anymore. was first dark beer that i really dug and sad to see it disappear from the area.
would love to try a good clone.
- but if anyone has some to contribute that aren't readily available in the UK (ie not Wyeast/WL) then we're open to donations...
got the old CL680 euro lager somewhere in the back of the cooler. have to prop it and see if its still good. not sure how i'd get it to you though as im not set up to do slants or anything like that....
