Warm Fermented Lager Thread

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Interesting, as most of the CML strains seem to be the same as Mangrove Jacks. Was there any big change in process that might have affected the rate at which it dropped?

Assume that none of the MJ strains are original, so it's a question of what they've repacked. I'd guess the Bavarian is almost certainly 34/70?
Cannot say as only brewed it once. Took about a week once kegged the same as their Kolsch yeast (which i really like). Had been in the fridge for 2 weeks and now only doing 5. Kegging the MJ54 is clear. No dirty first pint. No idea about the 34/70 but i have some to try soon. Also the CML beer was not dry hopped and the last batch had 150g of dry hops and still clear.
 
I was looking on the Mangrove Jack website and they say:

"As a result of the drying process, Mangrove Jack’s Craft Series dried yeasts are not suitable for harvesting and/or repitching. For best results, always use a fresh sachet of yeast with every brew."

Has anyone had trouble repitching this yeast? It is difficult to find at the LHBS and I'd rather not pay shipping. I found one pack with a good date. I will brew a 1.75 gallon California Common batch with it and then want to use that yeast to pitch a 3 gallon batch of Doppelbock. Anyone have experience reusing this yeast?

I top cropped my first batch and have been making starters with it since. I save a portion of the starter and make a fresh one each time. Up to 6 generations i think.
 
man, I really want an Oktoberfest going but have zero room in kegerator for cold fermenting. I wonder how MJ cali lager would go in a fest bier. does it finish too dry? I'd have to ferment in my brew-room, so-to-speak, which is conditioned at 74 degrees.
 
man, I really want an Oktoberfest going but have zero room in kegerator for cold fermenting. I wonder how MJ cali lager would go in a fest bier. does it finish too dry? I'd have to ferment in my brew-room, so-to-speak, which is conditioned at 74 degrees.

I cannot give you an exact attenuation rate as I do not own a hydrometer which is precise enough, but I got the feeling that CL is finishing on the dry end of the lager range, but not on the far dry end. I am more into dry beer and I like this strain, just to give you an idea.
But Maybe you can manage this with a high enough mash temp, I never tried this. I usually mash in between 61 and 65 degrees celsius. Never tried higher temps with this particular strain.
 
@ Miraculix
that is on the low side so maybe if I mashed around 157f/69c, it would produce a more Oktobery finish. although from brulosophy testing it doesn't seem to make a big difference. maybe even a little dextrine
my recipe yeast is wlp833 so not sure how that would do in warmer ferment, but I'd be 20degrees over max recommended
 
I got an Oktoberfest ready to keg. 34/70 ripped right through it in 36 hours at 68 degrees!
IMG_3065.jpg
 
Pulling the PRV every 15 minutes or so on number 5, taking it to FF Draft today. Was going to take the "meh" stout, but husband got after me last night that I don't share my beers with anyone but him and my brewpub boss, and I need to get other people's opinions (and be nice, that's difficult). Don't know how I feel about this one, done with all Crystal hops. The flavor is....sweet. It's also got a good carbonic bite going after two days on force carb, but that sweetness is kinda weird. Not a fruity ester, just....sweet. Doesn't linger too long on the tongue so it may be the hops. I'm more worried about what the guys will think of my beer than who I'm going to get on my team this year (other than Russell Wilson who I'm going to franchise for the third year in a row, best QB the Hawks have ever had, start stupid football rant in 3...2...1...).
 
@ Miraculix
that is on the low side so maybe if I mashed around 157f/69c, it would produce a more Oktobery finish. although from brulosophy testing it doesn't seem to make a big difference. maybe even a little dextrine
my recipe yeast is wlp833 so not sure how that would do in warmer ferment, but I'd be 20degrees over max recommended
S189 is what you want.
 
Brewing Lager beers at Ale temps used to be called "steam brewed beer" that I knew of.
Anchor Steam was one of the commercial ones.
I believe the Corona's were made this way due to lack of refrigeration and climate in Mexico way back when (and still today for climate)
 
Really corona is warm fermented thats pretty cool. Perhaps a corn Lime Mexican lager would be a good one to try warm.
 
Oktoberfest time! I don't know if I care for malty lagers. But i do like dunkel. But every year it just seems like the right thing to do, to make a marzen.
 
Setting up the schedule for next weekend to get #6 done as well as the Dreamsicle Wit I've been planning for a couple weeks. #5 went in less than 5 hours yesterday at FF Draft, leaving me with nothing but my House IPA and MC Stout until the Dank is ready to keg later this week. Toyed with the idea of doing a 10g batch but barely enough room in the ferment fridge for 3...and just checked and I can do it. yay!!!
 
Brewing Lager beers at Ale temps used to be called "steam brewed beer" that I knew of.
Anchor Steam was one of the commercial ones.
I believe the Corona's were made this way due to lack of refrigeration and climate in Mexico way back when (and still today for climate)
“Steam” referred to the evaporation coming off the coolships before refrigeration was Introduced. Warm ferment has more to do with our climate which is typically in low 60s.

Corona was brewed by modelo, which was founded by Germans. Germany had been using ice machines for decades in their breweries to be able to make lager anywhere and anytime. There is zero reason to believe Corona was fermented warm.

Stored warm in warehouse? Definitely. Brewed warm? No.

If Warm Fermented Fuhrer wants to make a pale, corny, lime lager recipe then you can’t skip the UV light oxidation in glass bottles along with warm storage. Snarky as it sounds, those things define corona.
 
^^Sounds delicious. Epic in denver has a mexican lime lager, but at craft prices worth giving it a try. Being jewish and having family in ww2, i am not sure fuhrer is an agreeable term in this instance. No offense taken though, not even a little, seems colloquial. Wish I was the leader. More a follower, sharer, learner, and experimenter.
 
Last edited:
Seems like marketing propaganda to sell more yeast.

I have seen people say the peachy flavor from US-05 is a first pitch thing. I have never used the mangrove jack yeasts but most other dry yeast I have tried work better on repitches then the first pitch. Maybe they are just saying the yeast will not perform completely the same as the first pitch.

I re-pitched the mangrove bohemian lager yeast in my last batch and had a great fermentation with a very clean finish in a higher gravity beer. (I controlled the temperature on that brew but have been following this thread for a while and will try a warm ferment sometime soon).
 
Has anyone gotten the reason behind why they say not to repitch? Not sure i caught that.
 
Has anyone gotten the reason behind why they say not to repitch? Not sure i caught that.

I'm not sure we have a for sure reason why they say don't repitch but I am guessing it is partly marketing and partly that they don't want people saying bad things about their yeast once it gets beyond their control in subsequent generations. It will be a few months but I will post my experience as I intend to do it.
 
The reason why this thread needs monitored is clearly evident on the warm fermented debate thread. Your comments are a better fit there thanks. It would be very easy to have this thread derailed with debate.
 
The reason why this thread needs monitored is clearly evident on the warm fermented debate thread. Your comments are a better fit there thanks. It would be very easy to have this thread derailed with debate.

Maybe we can close this topic with an answer from MJ themselves:

"In terms of re-pitching the yeast. The reason it says not suitable for re-pitching is the changes in the flavour profile when you do so (over our 4 years of testing it was found the profiles change over generations of the yeast). It is not to say that you can not re-pitch, just that if you wanted a consistant yeast character then use a new one each time."

:)
 
Last edited:
Did an Oktoberfest kind of thing yesterday and pitched a slurry of 34/70. I cooled to ~64 to pitch and it's sitting in ambient 71 room. My propane ran out at 30 minutes. I let it sit for 20 minutes after burner went out to hopefully get all the bitterness I need. This will be my 5th warm fermented lager. Every previous batch has dropped clear using 34/70 fwiw.
 
Did an Oktoberfest kind of thing yesterday and pitched a slurry of 34/70. I cooled to ~64 to pitch and it's sitting in ambient 71 room. My propane ran out at 30 minutes. I let it sit for 20 minutes after burner went out to hopefully get all the bitterness I need. This will be my 5th warm fermented lager. Every previous batch has dropped clear using 34/70 fwiw.
That's good to hear. Since this is my first lager and Oktoberfest, I'm excited to see how clear it'll be. I will be fining with Gelatin regardless. I just cleaned the keg I'm going to keg it in...now I just need find time to get it kegged.
 
I wonder if MJ uses blended yeasts and not a static strain. That would mean that each generation induces a bit of drift, therefore changing the flavor/fermentation profile, sometimes dramatically.
 
I idont recall fermentis or lallemand having the same warnings, so maybe it’s something about MJs processes. Interesting.
 
Made my version of a California common, which I have altered a bit (due to ingredients I have on hand). I have termed this brew the Cackalacky Basterd... Pitched wlp810 about 9pm Sunday and had krausen forming 9 hours later. Am fermenting at 60°-62° for ten days or so.
 
Last weekend I bottled a beer that fermented at ~22°C, give or take, with Wyeast 2112. The gravity sample tasted very clean.
I've always gotten some odd tasting beers with 2112 at colder temperatures. I've gotten questionable results with WLP860 and runaway temperatures. If this beer now remains as clean when fully carbonated, then darn this thread for overthrowing everything I thought I knew about brewing lagers.
 
Last weekend I bottled a beer that fermented at ~22°C, give or take, with Wyeast 2112. The gravity sample tasted very clean.
I've always gotten some odd tasting beers with 2112 at colder temperatures. I've gotten questionable results with WLP860 and runaway temperatures. If this beer now remains as clean when fully carbonated, then darn this thread for overthrowing everything I thought I knew about brewing lagers.

The entire purpose of 2112 is to be fermented warm!
 
I've been contemplating this. Thanks for reminding about this, I hadn't tried it, because I was using cold crashing to keep the alcohol content down, but I have better ways around this so I might try.

As was noted, it isn't a lager if you don't lager. Having said that their are Steam Beers and also Dark Cream Ales from Calfornia and Kentucky respectively, that use "lager" yeast but historically didn't have lager temperatures.

There is also a brewery in the DC area that does a steam beer in the memory of the Derecho that knocked power out in the area for weeks. The beer supposedly wasn't bad, so they made it a legitimate recipe.
 
22°C is well above the temperature range that Wyeast recommends. My previous brews with 2112 were at the lower end of the recommended temperatures.
 
Going to re-pitch the 34/70 I used on my last lager this weekend on what I hope will taste like my House IPA with a lager twist. 12lbs 2 row, 3lbs pilsner, bittered with Mosaic and with flavor/aroma additions of the same at 15, 10, 5, and flameout. Will ferment at 62. Will probably also dry hop it for the heck of it. The way my lagers have been turning out (with that lovely lager 'bite' and pretty clear) this should turn out pretty good. Why isn't it Saturday yet!!!
 
Kegged mine the other day!

It finished at 1.016.

IMG_3142.JPG


Smelled and tasted great. I now have it lagering.
 
Up at the crack of stupid to get going on #6 & #7. Was going to do a 10g batch, but my mash tun would be maxed out and as a weak female (ha!) I can't lift the grain bag out of the tun with that much wet grain. Sent husband off to Yakima to play golf with his friends, so will just do a double brew day instead. First batch (that will get hopped to a fare-thee-well) is in the tun now. Tomorrow will hit up the Fair to see how my beers did, I've waited three weeks, one more day won't make much difference. 34/70 slurry is out of the fridge and warming up, already looking great and smells wonderful.
 
Last way i would describe you as is weak. I use two bags when i brew 10 and it maxes my 15g and i can only do lower gravity full volume. But if you used 3 or 4 you would be set. Or two if you can manage one.
20180224_144241.jpg
 
I produce OktoDampf and Oktoberfest. It depends on the weather, whether, I call it steam or lager. I work with nature and sometimes winter is warmer and sometimes it's colder which has a direct bearing on the temperature in the brewery and as long as fermentation and aging temperature are between 40 and 55F, I'm good with it. At 55F it's OktoDampf, at 40F it's Oktoberfest. We're homebrewers, we have carte blanche. Since, nature's inconsistent, malt is inconsistent.

In lager and in light body ale I use 34/70 because it finishes crisp, in Oktoberfest I dump in a bunch of 802 Pils yeast. The reason why I use 802 in Oktoberfest has to do with the way that I brew Oktoberfest. I produce a dextrinous wort similar to Pils just not as high in dextrin as Pils and 802 works well with Pils.
For beer to endure the aging, clearing, and natural carbonation cycle and not thin out, A and B limit dextrin and a type of protein needs to be in wort. A and B limit dextrin are tasteless, nonfermenting, types of sugar responsible for body and mouthfeel. Limit dextrin is stored in amylo-pectin which is heat resistant, complex starch that makes up the tips of grain. Because it is complex starch it's the richest starch in malt. The starch begins to slowly melt at 169F. During the infusion process, mash temperature isn't high enough to allow enough starch to enter into solution before Alpha denatures. The starch is left in the spent mash, it's small, white, particles. The beer lacks body and mouthfeel and it will thin out as it ages.
Mash is boiled a few times during the decoction process which causes amylopectin to rapidly melt. The decoctions are added back into the tun and Alpha liquefies the starch releasing A and B limit dextrin during dextrinization.
When an ale and lager recipe recommends high modified malt, single infusion, only primary fermentation, priming with sugar and using CO2 injection for carbonation, the beer is similar to Prohibition style beer.

To produce OktoDampf (I claim the name!!) and Oktoberfest try Weyermann dark Pils floor malt, the malt is slightly under modified which means it's rich in enzyme content and the malt is low in protein which means there's a bunch of sugar in it. Throw in some sauer malz, won't need specialty malt. Use a Beta rest (140, 145F) conversion happens. Beta converts glucose into maltose and maltotriose which are complex sugars that yeast don't care for. Dump in a few packs of 34/70. After primary fermentation, secondary fermentation where another conversion occurs, yeast gets to love maltose almost as much as it loves glucose. Gravity drops closer to expected FG. Skip diacetyl rest, both styles. After secondary fermentation, into a keg adding no priming sugar or CO2, it won't be needed. During aging yeast works on maltotriose and natural carbonation occurs, the beer clears, flavors smooth out and meld. Gravity falls to expected FG.
To make all of that stuff work some mash needs to be boiled, a protein rest or two thrown in, and patients.
 
Last way i would describe you as is weak. I use two bags when i brew 10 and it maxes my 15g and i can only do lower gravity full volume. But if you used 3 or 4 you would be set. Or two if you can manage one.View attachment 586151

I only have one bag, that's lasted for many many batches. I was tempted to buy another one last weekend. Question: Does using two bags lower your efficiency? I know I could modify my tun (a repurposed 16g blue extract barrel) to get two bags in there, but I'd be concerned about keeping doughballs to a minimum.
 
Back
Top