Very confused about later & spare times

[sareinhart]

I am a relatively new brewer. I build a mash tun from a 10 gallon igloo cooler with a SS washer hose braid for a filter. Typically mash at 1.25 qts/lb then batch sparge to make up my boil volume. Shooting for 5 gallon batches and 7 gallon boils.

My question is TIME. Based on my interpretation of Palmer's website and a couple others.... I've been keeping the valve choked WAY back so that it takes an hour when I drain the mash tun the FIRST time - lauter - expecting usually about 10-12 qt. or so...

Then, when I batch sparge I again keep the valve choked WAY back so that it takes about an hour to make up the balance of my boil volume .... say approx 16-18 more quarts.

Now, I'm watching some other video and guys are draining their mash tuns really fast and batch sparging really fast. Like maybe 5 minutes each?

Obviously, I need to recirculate wort to set the grainbed. I get that... but am I wasting time watching my mash tun drain for 2 hrs on brew day? How fast do you typically drain your mash tun?

 

[Bandit-brewer]

Yes you are. So long a you dont compact your grain bed so fast that is sticks on you you can drain as fast as it will go. In my set up i start about half open for my vorlouf and once im done with that i open wide and let it go

 

[sareinhart]

Yes you are. So long a you dont compact your grain bed so fast that is sticks on you you can drain as fast as it will go. In my set up i start about half open for my vorlouf and once im done with that i open wide and let it go

Thanks.

 

[JLeuck64]

yup I would second that, let it go as fast as it will flow once you get the grain bed set (as long as you aren't seeing any grain particles getting sucked through)

When you get tired of batch sparging... it is time to start fly sparging. I have come to realize that we spend a little bit of time getting the grain bed to set and then totally F&%$ it up by batch sparging! It started to seem like a waste of 15-20 minutes getting the grain bed to re-set. Why not just figure out how to introduce some hotter water on top of the grain bed and let it run until you get your pre boil volume?! Duh...

 

[sareinhart]

yup I would second that, let it go as fast as it will flow once you get the grain bed set (as long as you aren't seeing any grain particles getting sucked through)

When you get tired of batch sparging... it is time to start fly sparging. I have come to realize that we spend a little bit of time getting the grain bed to set and then totally F&%$ it up by batch sparging! It started to seem like a waste of 15-20 minutes getting the grain bed to re-set. Why not just figure out how to introduce some hotter water on top of the grain bed and let it run until you get your pre boil volume?! Duh...

Good point. I'd need a sparge arm and a way to keep the water at about 170F, right?

 

[JLeuck64]

Yes, I have a kettle with a thermometer built in so I use it to sparge with. It's my understanding that what we're trying to do is raise the temperature of the grain bed to help rinse the sugars, but not get the grain bed over 170. So you can sparge safely with 170 degree water but it won't raise the overall grain bed temperature much. I've been watching grain bed temp with another thermometer and when using 180 and even 190 degree sparge water the grain bed temp has never increased more than 165F. I was getting those kind of numbers when I used to batch sparge and it always rinsed the grains very well. Since moving into the fly sparge I haven't noticed any change in eff% into the brew kettle, it's just getting the same volume into the kettle much quicker ( ; which is more efficient with time

 

[MagicMatt]

It's my understanding that what we're trying to do is raise the temperature of the grain bed to help rinse the sugars, but not get the grain bed over 170.

If you're fly sparging, the goal isn't to raise the temp, but to rinse the residual sugars. When fly sparging you should mash out at the end of the mash to raise the temps to 168°F. Getting the temp up quickly will halt/slow the conversion process, and then you can fly sparge with 168°F water to keep the MLT at that temp for the duration.

 

[acidrain]

When you get tired of batch sparging... it is time to start fly sparging. I have come to realize that we spend a little bit of time getting the grain bed to set and then totally F&%$ it up by batch sparging! It started to seem like a waste of 15-20 minutes getting the grain bed to re-set. Why not just figure out how to introduce some hotter water on top of the grain bed and let it run until you get your pre boil volume?! Duh...

Because batch sparging is faster, less energy, and works just as good as fly sparging.

3... 2... 1... discuss.

 

[Yooper]

Because batch sparging is faster, less energy, and works just as good as fly sparging.

3... 2... 1... discuss.

Yep. I sometimes batch sparge (most often) but if I have time to waste, say, because of dinner or something, I will still fly sparge. No real differences in efficiency, but over an hour saved off of my brewday.

The beauty of batch sparging is this- you add all the sparge water at once. There is no need to mash out, or anything like that raising the temperature, since it's so quick and you'll put the first runnings on to boil right away. So, drain the MLT fast. (No need to drain slow- drain as fast as your system will allow. For me that is 5 minutes or so).

Then, add the sparge water to the mash tun. Put your first runnings on the heat to bring to a boil at this time right after you add the water to the MLT. Even cold water is fine- it's more of a "washing machine" type of rinse than a fly sparge type of rinse. It's the agitation that "knocks" the sugars off the grain. So stir it like you mean it- really stir thoroughly. Then stir a little more. Vorlauf a couple of quarts, and drain as quickly as your system will allow. Add those runnings to the boil kettle which should be simmering at this time, or drain right into it (depending on if you have a pump or are gravity draining into a bucket or something) and you're all set.

The main advantage to batch sparging is the time savings, but there is no real disadvantage.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Later times are what you use in your spare time and spare times are what you use later. It's all in the wiki.