Using the Sediment for Cider

[Bogac_Erkan]

Hi. I have a 22 lt batch of Cooper's Amber Ale kit that is about to be bottled and I plan to use the sediment left in the fermenter to brew some cider.

The recipe I plan to follow was brewed the same way and the ingrients are:

14 lt store bought green apple juice
4 lt apple concentrate
250 gr sugar

The recipe advises yeast agitation time to time. The fermentation is supposed to bring the OG of ~1058 to FG of ~1000 and I plan to bottle with 3 gr of sugar per 50 cl bottle.

The first cider attempt was something in between a successful batch and a failure but I drank it all. I really want to achieve better results with this batch or else I might have throw the idea of brewing cider altogether.

I have a refrigerator where I can store all my bottles and I don't plan to pasteurize as I am afraid of bottle bombs and my wife ending my brewing career.

So, any advice, comment and insight are welcome.

Would this sediment be too much and do you think I will end up with bottles of cider that smell of yeast (that was the case with the first batch).

Thank you in advance.
Cheers.

 

[bernardsmith]

Rick over at Groennfell Meadery suggests that ironically, the smell of yeast, in wines and meads (and by extension cider) is caused by under-pitching your yeast. That is to say, is caused by the use of too little yeast. To avoid yeasty smells you want to pitch an appropriately large colony of viable (healthy) yeast. That said, only you know how much stress your yeast experienced and how much yeast is likely to be in the sediment.
Your recipe is OK - I might give it a grade of C if this was a class I was teaching. What is the SG of the green apple juice? And is this the best juice you can find: poor juice will not create good cider... Why are you adding sugar? And what is the reason for adding the concentrate? Is this to be used to back sweeten the cider or to add more apple flavor? Or to add more fermentable sugar.
Here's my thought - and I know many on this forum will disagree - especially the beer brewers. If you can find some 71B yeast use that. That yeast loves the malic acid in apples (and apples pressed for sweet cider (non alcoholic) tend to be more tart than those grown for hard cider. 71B will as it ferments the sugar transform the harsher malic acid into a less strong lactic acid. This takes time but it will convert about 40% of the malic acid (and malic is the main acid in apples) to lactic acid. If you use 71B aim to use 1 pack for every 4 or 5 liters. You can get by using 1 pack for 20 + liters but if your ciders smell of yeast you are not pitching enough yeast cells.

 

[Bogac_Erkan]

Well, I was a very bad student back in the college so I won't beg for a B.

I think it is pretty obvious that I do not know what I am doing exactly. At this moment I am only reading, hoping top learn more, try recipes and record what I do and pray for a drinkable outcome.

The yeast I poured into my first cider trial was the kit yeast that came with Munton's Export Pilsner kit. I used Safale S-04 with a ginger beer trial that ended in the sink.

These cider and ginger trials were to complex I'm afraid as I tried to combine several elements together. I even added red pepper to ginger beer. So after one unsuccessful and one partly successful trials, I decided to keep things simple and started looking for a recipe that were reported to be successful and simple. This C worth recipe I found in the Turkish beer making forums and decided to go for it as I have an almost done kit in the basement.

I believe, the amount of yeast I added to my smelly cider should be more than enough. It was a 7 liter batch and I poured 7 grams of yeast. But you know, I am a total noob.

Sadly I do know the SG of the green apple juice but as far as I can see, 100 ml of the juice contains 10,7 grams of sugar.

I guess the reason behind the added sugar is to achieve a higher alcohol level. The owner of the recipe stated that he had read lots of forum posts and the recipe is the result of these readings. The reason behind the puree is to contain more flavor and increase the body of the cider. He said ha added sugar into the bottles for carbonation.

Finding 71B might not be easy. In fact, I googled but couldn't find any importer here. I plan to use the sediment that will be left in the fermenter after I bottle the Cooper's Amber Ale kit. The guy tells that he poured 14 liters of green apple juice into the fermenter right after bottling and added the other ingredients. He says the OG of 1058 turned into a FG of 1001 in four days.

So that's the plan I plan to go after. I have some Safale S-04 as well.

 

[Drewed]

Try not to make a nuclear grade hootch. Keep the alcohol levels down and drink becomes much more enjoyable and less of a chore. Sure, you can make cider from a starting gravity of 1.150, but it will taste better and be more drinkable if you start around 1.060. Just dump the juice on the yeast cake and give it a good shake to mix it all up.
I'm asuming that apple concentrate is like condensed apple juice that you dump in a pitcher and add water too to make apple juice? Or is it an apple flavoring thing? Either way, 4L sounds like a lot.
Like I said, I dump the juice on the yeast ( or vice-versa) and let it roll. Once it craps out, taste it and see if it needs more apple flavor, more sugar, or both. Get it drinkable, then worry about carbonation.

 

[Harambe]

Yeast is so inexpensive, why gamble with the remaining sediment from a previously brewed batch of beer? You're probably more likely to get a more consistent, better result from just using a new packet of yeast.

 

[Bogac_Erkan]

Try not to make a nuclear grade hootch. Keep the alcohol levels down and drink becomes much more enjoyable and less of a chore. Sure, you can make cider from a starting gravity of 1.150, but it will taste better and be more drinkable if you start around 1.060. Just dump the juice on the yeast cake and give it a good shake to mix it all up.
I'm assuming that apple concentrate is like condensed apple juice that you dump in a pitcher and add water too to make apple juice? Or is it an apple flavoring thing? Either way, 4L sounds like a lot.
Like I said, I dump the juice on the yeast ( or vice-versa) and let it roll. Once it craps out, taste it and see if it needs more apple flavor, more sugar, or both. Get it drinkable, then worry about carbonation.

The concentrate is just like fresh pressed apple juice and it is not a an apple flavoring thing. I think the recipe uses this amount to bring down the sourness of green apples.

Yesterday night I was checking my fermenters and realized one of my 8 liter jars is empty. Maybe I will use that jar and brew a 7 liter batch as I am a little short on bottles as well.

 

[Drewed]

Ok, now I understand the concentrate. I'd check your gravity before adding the sugar. The concentrates over by me tend to pretty high in the sugar department.

 

[Bogac_Erkan]

I checked... 11,5 grams of sugar in 100 milliliters.

 

[bernardsmith]

I checked... 11,5 grams of sugar in 100 milliliters.

so, if my arithmetic is not crazy that sounds like there is about 1 lb of sugar in every US gallon of juice and that converts to a starting specific gravity of about 1.040 and that converts to a potential ABV of about 5.25% which for a cider is what you should be looking for.
That said, you may have a couple or more options: You can ferment this bone dry and then add some more sugar (or apple juice) to carbonate the cider or you can stabilize the bone dry cider and then sweeten it (the sugar that you add after stabilization will not ferment) or (and I don't recommend this and have never tried this but cider makers on this forum say that it is far less risky and dangerous than it would appear), you ferment the cider bone dry then you add enough sugar to sweeten the cider AND to carbonate it. You monitor the amount of CO2 (carbon dioxide) the fermentation is producing and when the cider is suitably carbonated you pasteurize the bottles to kill the yeast leaving the remainder of the sugar sweet and unfermented. (Miss the right time and you have bottle bombs because of the pressure the gas exerts. Over heat a pressurized bottle and it is likely to explode as you pasteurize it... so you are looking for a sweet spot.. )

 

[Bogac_Erkan]

Well, pasteurization scares the sweet out me. I tried to monitor the level of carbonization in my last batch of ginger with pet bottles but it was pretty hard and I ended up opening bottles every day.

The owner of this recipe tells that they bottled at the end of day 4 and the FG was 1001. They bottled half of their batch in 50 cl bottles with 2,08 gr of sugar and the second batch with 4,16 gr of sugar but they didn't feel any difference in taste or carbonation.

I want my cider to be fizzy with plenty of gas but I still couldn't figure out how to achieve it. Maybe I will use pet bottles to test carbonizatiıon and when I feel I achieved the required levels, I will store all the bottles under refrigeration.

Thank you very much for all your recommendations and advice.