Using Starsan in Sparge Water

[MrHadack]

And what is the right way? the way you say to do it? you just dont get it. This thread is so far off topic its sickning. If you all have such a problem with star san and its so unsafe and poisonous, lets just outlaw it and stop using it. My god.

First, it's not off topic. We're discussing using starsan as an acid source to modify pH, aren't we? The OP asked for comments. You seem to think that anything aside from praise is out of line.

You're also creating a strawman argument saying people are objecting because they think starsan is "poisonous and unsafe." If others are saying this at all (I never did) they are probably referring to that concept that when you use starsan NOT as directed, it certainly does have deleterious and unwanted effects.

My point, demonstrated by the example of the Austrian wines is simple: just because an innovative and alternate solution to a problem has a similar result, it doesn't mean it is equally as good. Will starsan lower pH? Sure. Will one tiny drop in a gallon of water have any bad side effects? Most likely not. In an emergency, that's a pretty good stop gap measure and a clever one, I can see that. But to make it your go-to process is just laziness. And that's just an opinion. To me, it's like someone who can't be bothered to go get a hammer so they try to pound a nail in with a rock. In a pinch, it gets the job done. But I'd never rely on the rock as an everyday tool when hammers are easy to come by.

 

[MrBinsky]

I can see why people have a problem with the idea of using it directly in their wort, but as I've said, when you use starsan to sanitize equipment without rinsing, you are going to end up getting more starsan in your finished product than this does. Especially if you are rinsing your 12oz bottles with it.

I used to bottle and now I keg, so in all honestly, despite using this sparge water technique, I probably have less starsan in my beer now than I used to.

I understand the argument that starsan is not meant to be used this way, but it makes no difference in the end. Besides, we use toilet parts to make beer. Are we really all that rigid on "using as directed"?

 

[Terek]

You're also creating a strawman argument saying people are objecting because they think starsan is "poisonous and unsafe." If others are saying this at all (I never did) they are probably referring to that concept that when you use starsan NOT as directed, it certainly does have deleterious and unwanted effects.

you obviously have not read the other 4 pages of this thread. And I have used starsan in many "not as directed" situations for years and years and have NEVER had any deleterious and unwanted effects. I simply stated to the OP what i have used it for and my experiences threw out the years. All I received was post after post as to why "im wrong" with no hard evidence. Just peoples opinions and info they kind of scrounged up on the web. No first hand experiences. Just a lot of "if its not in the three sentences on the label, you are wrong" So I will continue to get the most I can out of my products, and you all can follow the herd. I guess thinking outside of the box is frowned upon these days. Even with hard proof that has been proven time and time again. Whatever, ill keep my secrets to myself i guess. Whats the phrase? " work harder, not smarter?" I always thought it was the other way around. Go figure

 

[WissahickonBrew]

Maybe it's the folks at Starsan that are wrong?

Funny, been mixing it that way for like 5 years and have never had an infection. Seems my way works just fine

 

[WissahickonBrew]

Some of the contributors in this thread make me wonder why Starsan hasn't thought of starting their own soft drink line. Sanitizer over ice sounds cool and refreshing on a hot summer day.

The OP asked for opinions and got them. The guy who tops off his batches with sanitizer took the cake for me.... mama mia!

 

[Terek]

Some of the contributors in this thread make me wonder why Starsan hasn't thought of starting their own soft drink line. Sanitizer over ice sounds cool and refreshing on a hot summer day.

The OP asked for opinions and got them. The guy who tops off his batches with sanitizer took the cake for me.... mama mia!

what really takes the cake is that brew took 2nd in a comp. So watch out, that volatile sanitizer will ruin anything it comes in contact with. Just use bleach, its been being used as a sanitizer for a long long time. Use as directed. Hell, amonia sanitizes as well. Start using that, only as directed

 

[Terek]

Ow, throw away your mash tuns that are made out of coolers, thats not there intended use.

 

[Terek]

You cannot brew in your garage either, Its intended use is for vehicle storage. No were does it say it is to be used to produce alcoholic beverages! You must go buy a building specifically designed for brewing, or your doing it wrong. Something detrimental might happen.......

 

[MrHadack]

You cannot brew in your garage either, Its intended use is for vehicle storage. No were does it say it is to be used to produce alcoholic beverages! You must go buy a building specifically designed for brewing, or your doing it wrong. Something detrimental might happen.......

More unrelated strawmen arguments... some reducto absurdum thrown in for good measure. Strong arguments!

 

[Terek]

figured id give the same smart ass arguments as the other posts. This thread seems a joke to everyone else, thought id join in. But i guess im not allowed to, because you say so.

 

[max384]

And what is the right way? the way you say to do it? you just dont get it. This thread is so far off topic its sickning. If you all have such a problem with star san and its so unsafe and poisonous, lets just outlaw it and stop using it. My god.

How exactly is this thread off topic???

As per the OP:

Any thoughts or questions?

We can disagree and still be on topic.

I can see why people have a problem with the idea of using it directly in their wort, but as I've said, when you use starsan to sanitize equipment without rinsing, you are going to end up getting more starsan in your finished product than this does. Especially if you are rinsing your 12oz bottles with it.

I used to bottle and now I keg, so in all honestly, despite using this sparge water technique, I probably have less starsan in my beer now than I used to.

I understand the argument that starsan is not meant to be used this way, but it makes no difference in the end. Besides, we use toilet parts to make beer. Are we really all that rigid on "using as directed"?

The problem is that you AREN'T getting more Star San in the finished product when rinsing bottles, kegs, and equipment as compared to adding it directly to the wort. By mixing Star San as directed, you are diluting it 640:1. So, what this means is that if an entire ounce of Star San solution ended up in your beer, you would end up with 1/640 of an ounce of Star San in your beer. That equates to less than a single drop of Star San, and an ounce of Star San is probably a high estimate for how much ends up in beer.

 

[MrBinsky]

In all honesty, this has made me realize, that while it is cool to use starsan for another purpose, there really isn't any excuse for why I continue to use it, rather than just buying some acid. I suppose it is laziness. But as I've said, I guess I've just never gotten around to buying acid for this purpose just because of that fact that it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

The problem is that you AREN'T getting more Star San in the finished product when rinsing bottles, kegs, and equipment as compared to adding it directly to the wort. By mixing Star San as directed, you are diluting it 640:1. So, what this means is that if an entire ounce of Star San solution ended up in your beer, you would end up with 1/640 of an ounce of Star San in your beer. That equates to less than a single drop of Star San, and an ounce of Star San is probably a high estimate for how much ends up in beer.

We are talking about such small quantities that is doesn't matter, but for what it's worth, according to wikipedia, there are about 20 drops in a milliliter. Of course drops vary in size, and I use very small drops which are probably smaller than 1/20ml, that's just the number we will use. Now, assuming that entire drop makes it into my beer, (it doesn't. A good amount never makes it out of the MLT) this means I am adding 1/20ml of starsan to my beer (~0.0017oz). Now, I have never measured it, of course, but I figure that somewhere in the ballpark of 1/2ml of sanitizer solution makes it into each bottle after a rinse. I give the bottle a good shake and try to get out as much starsan as possible, but I'm moving quickly. 1/2ml times 50 bottles is 25ml of starsan solution. I mix my starsan at the directed ratio, which as you pointed out, is a 1:640. So, 25ml of a 1/640 solution of starsan is ~0.0014oz.

So based on my extremely rough math, my method of acidifying sparge water with starsan puts around 0.0017oz of starsan in my finished beer, while bottling puts about 0.0014oz of starsan in my finished beer. Based on how rough the calculations are, I suppose that is basically equal. Acidifying sparge water adds roughly as much starsan to my beer as bottling did. (Which by the way, is a fraction of one percent of an ounce!)

Is me using starsan instead of a proper acid lazy. Ya, I guess I'll give you that. But does is make a difference? I'd argue no.

 

[max384]

In all honesty, this has made me realize, that while it is cool to use starsan for another purpose, there really isn't any excuse for why I continue to use it, rather than just buying some acid. I suppose it is laziness. But as I've said, I guess I've just never gotten around to buying acid for this purpose just because of that fact that it wouldn't make a bit of difference.



We are talking about such small quantities that is doesn't matter, but for what it's worth, according to wikipedia, there are about 20 drops in a milliliter. Of course drops vary in size, and I use very small drops which are probably smaller than 1/20ml, that's just the number we will use. Now, assuming that entire drop makes it into my beer, (it doesn't. A good amount never makes it out of the MLT) this means I am adding 1/20ml of starsan to my beer (~0.0017oz). Now, I have never measured it, of course, but I figure that somewhere in the ballpark of 1/2ml of sanitizer solution makes it into each bottle after a rinse. I give the bottle a good shake and try to get out as much starsan as possible, but I'm moving quickly. 1/2ml times 50 bottles is 25ml of starsan solution. I mix my starsan at the directed ratio, which as you pointed out, is a 1:640. So, 25ml of a 1/640 solution of starsan is ~0.0014oz.

So based on my extremely rough math, my method of acidifying sparge water with starsan puts around 0.0017oz of starsan in my finished beer, while bottling puts about 0.0014oz of starsan in my finished beer. Based on how rough the calculations are, I suppose that is basically equal. Acidifying sparge water adds roughly as much starsan to my beer as bottling did. (Which by the way, is a fraction of one percent of an ounce!)

Is me using starsan instead of a proper acid lazy. Ya, I guess I'll give you that. But does is make a difference? I'd argue no.

I'd argue that half a milliliter of Star San solution per bottle sounds like a very high estimate... But regardless, I guess either way really isn't all that much Star San. I actually didn't remember that you had said you only put one drop in during the sparge. I still wouldn't use this method myself though...

 

[WissahickonBrew]

My remarks are but related...

I often wondered about the process of homebrewers brewing concoctions without any monitoring, adding "ingredients" and bottling the finished product which is then submitted for judging and tasting by others. There are no regulations or culpability with regard to what is (or should) be disclosed as far as ingredients goes. I dare say if a homebrewer was required to disclose their recipe included topping off with Starsan sanitizer it might give the judge pause before ingesting it. In some instances the homebrewer is required to submit their "recipe" if they win first place or best of show. I wonder if even then does the ingredient "Starsan" show up?

what really takes the cake is that brew took 2nd in a comp. So watch out, that volatile sanitizer will ruin anything it comes in contact with. Just use bleach, its been being used as a sanitizer for a long long time. Use as directed. Hell, amonia sanitizes as well. Start using that, only as directed