Using Potassium Hydroxide or Sodium Hydroxide to make homemade BLC

[Draft Master Flash]

I've noticed lately that BLC beerline cleaner has almost doubled in price since that last time I bought it and I'm not too happy about it.. Knowing that there are several homebrewers who have had great success making a homemade PBW, I was wondering if anyone makes BLC with a 2% solution of Potassium Hydroxide or even Sodium Hydroxide? 2 pound bags of food grade Potassium Hydroxide are available at only about $15 and I'm sure 2 lbs would probably make quite a bit of BLC.

Any experiences?


DMF

 

[VikeMan]

I don't have any experience making homemade BLC, but besides Potassium Hydroxide, there are 3 other hazardous chemicals and who knows how many non-hazardous chemicals in it. My guess would be that a simple solution of Potassium Hydroxide and water wouldn't be as effective, but I dunno.

 

[Draft Master Flash]

I don't have any experience making homemade BLC, but besides Potassium Hydroxide, there are 3 other hazardous chemicals and who knows how many non-hazardous chemicals in it. My guess would be that a simple solution of Potassium Hydroxide and water wouldn't be as effective, but I dunno.

I kind of questioned that too but I also noticed that Foxx Equipment makes a generic version of BLC that only lists Potassium Hydroxide as the active ingredient. I haven't really known of anyone who has tried their generic line cleaner though. I read somewhere that a 2 to 3% mixture is what is commonly used.

In this day and age of high cost living, I'm thinking about giving it a try.


DMF

 

[Deadalus]

Here's the safety sheet for BLC. Potassium hydroxide is 5-10%.

 

[IslandLizard]

Look at the ingredients to find substitutes.

I've read somewhere that using (homemade) PBW with some Lye added works well as a line cleaner, such as BLC, at a fraction of the price. I always use that as my homemade BLC.

You can buy Lye in the hardware store, in powder or liquid form. Last time I checked, a gallon of 17% lye solution ran under $3. A 12 or 16 oz canister of "drain opener" pellets (lye) around $4-6.

Warning: Wear proper skin and eye protection when using caustic products, such as the ones I mentioned above.

For cleaning purposes Sodium and Potassium components are generally interchangeable.

 

[Draft Master Flash]

Here's the safety sheet for BLC. Potassium hydroxide is 5-10%.

A little stronger than I thought. I would definetly be really careful handling these chemicals but still worth a try.

DMF

Look at the ingredients to find substitutes.

I've read somewhere that using (homemade) PBW with some Lye added works well as a line cleaner, such as BLC, at a fraction of the price. I always use that as my homemade BLC.

You can buy Lye in the hardware store, in powder or liquid form. Last time I checked, a gallon of 17% lye solution ran under $3. A 12 or 16 oz canister of "drain opener" pellets (lye) around $4-6.

Warning: Wear proper skin and eye protection when using caustic products, such as the ones I mentioned above.

For cleaning purposes Sodium and Potassium components are generally interchangeable.

I'm not able to get TSP/90 or sodium metasilicate at a reasonable price that would make it cost effective enough to make the PBW recipe. What I have been using to clean equipment is just Oxyclean Free with 7th Generation Dishwasher detergent at a ratio of 2-1 without the TSP/90 with really good results although with the TSP/90 added I'm sure it would be even better. Maybe some lye added to this mixture could work. But what I've gathered Potassium Hydroxide rinses out easy.

DMF

 

[Deadalus]

A little stronger than I thought. I would definetly be really careful handling this chemicals but still worth a try.

DMF

I'm not able to get TSP/90 or sodium metasilicate at a reasonable price that would make it cost effective enough to make the PBW recipe. What I have been using to clean equipment is just Oxyclean Free with 7th Generation Dishwasher detergent at a ratio of 2-1 without the TSP/90 with really good results although with the TSP/90 added I'm sure it would be even better. Maybe some lye added to this mixture could work. But what I've gathered Potassium Hydroxide rinses out easy.

DMF

The thread on the homemade PBW is rather long but it is actually TSP not the TSP/90. The TSP/90 works because I went that route by mistake but it is TSP that is the ingredient needed. Which you can get really cheap from Home Depot online. The sodium metasilicate is I think for hard water but I don't use it. I put the safety sheet for PBW in that thread. I'm not a chemist though just cheap.

 

[IslandLizard]

The thread on the homemade PBW is rather long but it is actually TSP not the TSP/90. The TSP/90 works because I went that route by mistake but it is TSP that is the ingredient needed. Which you can get really cheap from Home Depot online. The sodium metasilicate is I think for hard water but I don't use it. I put the safety sheet for PBW in that thread. I'm not a chemist though just cheap.

TSP (TriSodium Phosphate) is fine to use instead of TSP/90.

The use of TSP/90 (Sodium Metasilicate) over TSP came about in the late 60s and early 70s to reduce phosphates in effluent which caused heavy algae blooming.
Nowadays phosphates don't seem to matter as much.
They're both heavy degreasers, lowering raising pH drastically, as does Lye.

 

[sibelman]

lowering pH

You mean raising, right?

 

[IslandLizard]

You mean raising, right?

Of course!
(Fixed)

 

[Draft Master Flash]

The thread on the homemade PBW is rather long but it is actually TSP not the TSP/90. The TSP/90 works because I went that route by mistake but it is TSP that is the ingredient needed. Which you can get really cheap from Home Depot online. The sodium metasilicate is I think for hard water but I don't use it. I put the safety sheet for PBW in that thread. I'm not a chemist though just cheap.

I've heard it's okay to use regular TSP but was hesitant to use because someone once told me it's not evironmentally safe and to not flush down septic systems but I could be wrong. Also our water is about as hard as it can be. When I used straight Oxyclean free it would leave a caked on residue that was undesirable.

DMF

 

[Deadalus]

TSP (TriSodium Phosphate) is fine to use instead of TSP/90.

The use of TSP/90 (Sodium Metasilicate) over TSP came about in the late 60s and early 70s to reduce phosphates in effluent which caused heavy algae blooming.
Nowadays phosphates don't seem to matter as much.
They're both heavy degreasers, lowering raising pH drastically, as does Lye.

Thanks! My bad, I'm always mixing up what is what in that recipe! It is actually disodium metasilicate aka sodium metasilicate--which TSP-90 is 100%--that is in PBW powder. But they both do similar things (cleaning helpers). It was the sodium carbonate I was thinking of for reducing hardness:

sodium carbonate
Reduces water hardness, makes cleaning products more effective; may also aid in processing, modifying viscosity or balancing pH.

In the low foam PBW, the sodium metasilicate is reduced to only about 1-3% and the sodium carbonate is increased to 60-80% (from 10-30%) while keeping the sodium percarbonate at the same 10-30%. In the powder PBW, those three active ingredients are all 10-30%, with only a little sodium lauryl sulphate listed at 0.1-1%.

And then the sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate is the oxidizer, but the sodium carbonate and the sodium carbonate peroxyhydrate (sodium percarbonate) are what is in the oxiclean or All Oxi is what I use.

Yes the phosphates do contribute to eutrophication-haven't used that word in a long time!

 

[Deadalus]

I've heard it's okay to use regular TSP but was hesitant to use because someone once told me it's not evironmentally safe and to not flush down septic systems but I could be wrong. Also our water is about as hard as it can be. When I used straight Oxyclean free it would leave a caked on residue that was undesirable.

DMF

RIght, as IslandLizard mentioned, excessive phosphate use is detrimental to the environment, which has been known for a fairly long time and efforts have been fairly successful at getting it removed from detergents. It's not used in laundry detergents in many places around the world and mostly phased out of dishwasher detergents. Agriculture is a big source, however. The main issue is it's not toxic per se but that phosphorus is limiting for plants and algae, so the aquatic systems get unbalanced when excessive amounts get washed in.

I did see a mention of TSP90 potentially helping with water hardness. The following description doesn't exactly specify such but maybe one of those properties combats it. I' don't think I ever lived anywhere with hard water just soft water.

Sodium metasilicate pentahydrate is a multifunctional product that shows excellent pH-regulating capacity, efficient detergency, effective corrosion inhibition, good dispersing properties and which is environmentally safe.

 

[Draft Master Flash]

RIght, as IslandLizard mentioned, excessive phosphate use is detrimental to the environment, which has been known for a fairly long time and efforts have been fairly successful at getting it removed from detergents. It's not used in laundry detergents in many places around the world and mostly phased out of dishwasher detergents. Agriculture is a big source, however. The main issue is it's not toxic per se but that phosphorus is limiting for plants and algae, so the aquatic systems get unbalanced when excessive amounts get washed in.

I did see a mention of TSP90 potentially helping with water hardness. The following description doesn't exactly specify such but maybe one of those properties combats it. I' don't think I ever lived anywhere with hard water just soft water.

Sodium metasilicate pentahydrate is a multifunctional product that shows excellent pH-regulating capacity, efficient detergency, effective corrosion inhibition, good dispersing properties and which is environmentally safe.

I remember a few years back trying to get a hold of some Red Devil TSP/90 but what little I could find was too expensive. I don't even know if Red Devil is still in business or if it even makes it anymore.

There is a TSP/PF that is phosphate free but what I understand is an entirely different chemical.

DMF

 

[IslandLizard]

There is a TSP/PF that is phosphate free but what I understand is an entirely different chemical.

As if TSP/90 isn't confusing enough...

I used to buy TSP/90 at around $4 a pound in 4 pound bags, IIRC.
Maybe the /90 has gone out of style. Never found out what it stands for. The year 1990 perhaps?

Here are the ingredients of TSP/PF (link):

Sodium sesquicarbonate	000533-96-0	90.0-95.0
Sodium metasilicate	006834-92-0	0.1-5.0
Tetrasodium EDTA	000064-02-8	0.1-5.0

What the heck is Sodium_sesquicarbonate?

 

[Draft Master Flash]

As if TSP/90 isn't confusing enough...

I used to buy TSP/90 at around $4 a pound in 4 pound bags, IIRC.
Maybe the /90 has gone out of style. Never found out what it stands for. The year 1990 perhaps?

Here are the ingredients of TSP/PF (link):

Sodium sesquicarbonate	000533-96-0	90.0-95.0
Sodium metasilicate	006834-92-0	0.1-5.0
Tetrasodium EDTA	000064-02-8	0.1-5.0

What the heck is Sodium_sesquicarbonate?

That's what I thought. I don't even know if it's even usable.


DMF

 

[IslandLizard]

What the heck is Sodium_sesquicarbonate?

That wikipedia link shows it being used (among other purposes) for heavy duty cleaning, replacing TSP as a non-phosphate alternative:

"Sodium sesquicarbonate is used in bath salts, swimming pools, as an alkalinity source for water treatment, and as a phosphate-free product replacing the trisodium phosphate for heavy duty cleaning."

So I guess that's fairly new.

 

[Draft Master Flash]

I've found that one of the most important things about cleaning products when it come to brewing is how well it rinses out and if it's cleaning abilities are even useful for our use. It sounds like it would be okay but another point is whether it is advisable to mix with the other chemicals.

DMF