Using Extract Beer Kits Past Expiration Date

[VikingBrewer]

Question for the masses, sorry if this is long winded. I've been brewing for a while with extract kits Like the cans of Coopers. Although life got in the way and I took an involuntary break from brewing. So now I have been left with a few cans past their expiration date. I have mostly had really good success with Coopers. A few years back, I did do a Mexican Cerveza (Corona Style) beer that had past its expiry and it it was darker and maltier than it should have been but was drinkable. Maybe I have/had lower standards LOL. My online research in the past, sometimes it turns out sometimes not and will acquire a darker maltier flavor.

So here we go bare with me here.
My latest brew is a Thomas Coopers IPA. I've sorta been following a recipe (not the one on the can) that was on the DIY Beer website. Here are my stats so far;

Extract Kit: Coopers IPA
Best Before Date: 17/02/13
Yeast: 22g (2X 11g Packs) Nottingham, rehydrated
Coopers Brew Enhancer 2: 1Kg package
Table Sugar: 600g
Dry Hops: (Fresh from the garden dried) 12g added after pitching in Primary.

So these were my steps up to now.
First I had boiled my water to remove chlorine & chloramine a few days prior and chilled my water in a spare fridge until brew day.
Brew day I started with sanitizing EVERYTHING, I'm a bit strict on this. Next started to warm up the Coopers IPA can in the sink of warm water. Heated up aprox. 2L of water in a pot on the stove to dissolve all the fermentables, then added the sanitized can of IPA.

Poured this all into the fermenter (Original Coopers Style) along with the chilled water to the mix, allowing to splash to oxygenate, to a temp of 21/22c, Oxygenated some more with a slotted spoon.

Next took OG at 1052. Tasted at this point and it did have quite a malty flavor. hoping the extra dry hops help out. Pitched 22g of Hydrated (30/35c according to PKG directions) Nottingham Yeast. Added my Cascade dry hops.

Closed everything up, and added the airlock. So I have been checking in everyday and we are now day three and the airlock has no activity not bubbling. But there does appear to have lots of activity inside as the Krausen IS bubbling. I am thinking this is going to be a very slow ferment??? I did unscrew the lid and re-screw it back on. BTW the gasket has a small thin film of olive oil to help seal.

What are your guy's thoughts? Any way to fix the maltiness? Thanks in advance.

 

[SMOKEU]

Was the yeast fresh?

Whatever you do, don't get any traces of olive oil in the beer or it will kill the head retention. Old extract tends to darken and may lose bitterness I guess so this may be a cause of the excess maltiness.

 

[VikingBrewer]

Was the yeast fresh?

Whatever you do, don't get any traces of olive oil in the beer or it will kill the head retention. Old extract tends to darken and may lose bitterness I guess so this may be a cause of the excess maltiness.

Yes the yeast was fresh. I just finished a brew of Coopers Real Ale successfuly and was very active in the airlock unlike the absence of activity in the airlock in this new batch. Still not action in the airlock today, but I think the pressure has started to build enough to move the water in the airlock a couple millimeters. I’m more concerned about the activity in the airlock even though there seems to be activity in the Krausen, than I am the darker malty flavors.

No it is really just a film by my finger, suggested by Coopers in their instructions for the fermenter.

Yes that is what I’ve heard that they get malty and that’s why I thought I would add the extra malt although only 12g. I’m cheap and wanted to see if it could be a palatable brew. I have a few more cans I hadn’t gotten to. A couple Pilsners, a Drought, and a Stout. A couple recipes I’ve wanted to try requires a second can of either the same or different style. So figured the addition of a second “fresh” can will help.

 

[ncbrewer]

Extract Kit: Coopers IPA
Best Before Date: 17/02/13

That's really old. Probably best to see how this one turns out before starting another batch with old extract - you might decide it isn't worth the effort.

First I had boiled my water to remove chlorine & chloramine a few days prior and chilled my water in a spare fridge until brew day.

If you have chloramine, boiling normally won't remove it. Seems like I've read that really long boiling will do it, but it's not practical. Campden, at a rate of 1 tablet per 20 gallons of water, will take care of both.

then added the sanitized can of IPA.

I didn't see if or how the can was sanitized.

So I have been checking in everyday and we are now day three and the airlock has no activity not bubbling. But there does appear to have lots of activity inside as the Krausen IS bubbling.

If you have a good kraeusen, it's fermenting. It's not uncommon, especially with a bucket fermenter, to have a small leak in the seal and not get bubbles. I'd leave the lid on now and let it finish. Removing the lid gives it a chance of oxidation and contamination.

Good luck with this.

 

[VikingBrewer]

That's really old. Probably best to see how this one turns out before starting another batch with old extract - you might decide it isn't worth the effort.

If you have chloramine, boiling normally won't remove it. Seems like I've read that really long boiling will do it, but it's not practical. Campden, at a rate of 1 tablet per 20 gallons of water, will take care of both.

I didn't see if or how the can was sanitized.

If you have a good kraeusen, it's fermenting. It's not uncommon, especially with a bucket fermenter, to have a small leak in the seal and not get bubbles. I'd leave the lid on now and let it finish. Removing the lid gives it a chance of oxidation and contamination.

Good luck with this.

I agree it is old and I have brewed drinkable, although a bit malty for my preference, but thinking combining with a second fresh can would help flavor wise.

I’ve read on other posts that boiling for 15 min will remove both otherwise letting sit out in the sun for 48hrs. Don’t have the patients to sit out that long. I’ll just go buy water at that point. I’m uneasy using Campden, I prefer more natural methods.

No I did not show the sanitation process of sanitizing the extract can. Thought that details here were not needed as it’s pretty self explanatory, but my process was after taking it out of the warming water, I sprayed the can top and can opener with a water/bleach solution then rinsed thoroughly.

Not using a bucket but the original Cooper’s fermenting Kit. (*Note: this pic is of my previous batch)

I know there is something happening as there is activity in the Krausen just not the airlock.

thanks for the input.

 

[VikingBrewer]

Well I was near the fermenter earlier today and happened to glance at it just as it went BLURP, but hasn’t repeated, so my initial thoughts that it is fermenting very slowly seems to be the case.

Feeling hopeful

On another note, it was tasting day for for my Cooper’s Real Ale 6.13% ABV. Only 2 weeks bottling conditioning. Will be more refined after another 2-3 weeks conditioning.

 

[Calder]

It may be done, take a gravity sample.

I had one brew with Nottingham, that I was convinced didn't go. I even contacted the yeast manufacturer to check the yeast batch was OK (they had recently had a dud batch of yeast that they recalled). They said it was OK. I never saw any activity, I have a completely sealed fermenter (small cap, never failed to seal before or since in the last 20 years). I took a gravity sample, and to my surprise, the beer was done.

 

[VikingBrewer]

It may be done, take a gravity sample.

I had one brew with Nottingham, that I was convinced didn't go. I even contacted the yeast manufacturer to check the yeast batch was OK (they had recently had a dud batch of yeast that they recalled). They said it was OK. I never saw any activity, I have a completely sealed fermenter (small cap, never failed to seal before or since in the last 20 years). I took a gravity sample, and to my surprise, the beer was done.

I’ve heard of brews finishing within a couple of days but I’ve seen similar posts that suggest to wait at least one week before checking Gravity then recheck 48hrs later.

 

[ike8228]

I’ve used old extract (2.5 years) but was store in a bag rather than a can. It had a stale taste to it. This may be hidable in darker/hoppy beers but this was a cream ale.

There is question to storing long term in cans as well. Like they say with food, it will store for a very long time...but the flavor and color of food will diminish over that time. The same could probably be said for extract too. Won’t hurt you but probably won’t taste the best.

The other thing to consider with all malts, especially extract, is the time exposure of oxygen. The longer you go the longer the oxygen will degrade it. If using extract it’s best to use dme not LME and in either case fresher the better.

But having said that, being a kit, what’s the worst that can happen? You waste 5-7 gallons of water and a few hours. If you have supplemental brews going (fresh ones) then you’ll have something to drink regardless. If it’s crap dump it, if it’s drinkable, drink it after you have a little buzz going (you won’t notice as much) or you could mix it with something else. I had two batches not turn out so well for me. A flatter sweeter red and a stalish cream. I mix the two and get a Vienna of sorts. The two issues almost wash each other out.

 

[VikingBrewer]

I’ve used old extract (2.5 years) but was store in a bag rather than a can. It had a stale taste to it. This may be hidable in darker/hoppy beers but this was a cream ale.

There is question to storing long term in cans as well. Like they say with food, it will store for a very long time...but the flavor and color of food will diminish over that time. The same could probably be said for extract too. Won’t hurt you but probably won’t taste the best.

The other thing to consider with all malts, especially extract, is the time exposure of oxygen. The longer you go the longer the oxygen will degrade it. If using extract it’s best to use dme not LME and in either case fresher the better.

But having said that, being a kit, what’s the worst that can happen? You waste 5-7 gallons of water and a few hours. If you have supplemental brews going (fresh ones) then you’ll have something to drink regardless. If it’s crap dump it, if it’s drinkable, drink it after you have a little buzz going (you won’t notice as much) or you could mix it with something else. I had two batches not turn out so well for me. A flatter sweeter red and a stalish cream. I mix the two and get a Vienna of sorts. The two issues almost wash each other out.

Ive heard arguments that finished canned beer not as good as glass bottled is just a myth as the caps on the bottles can slowly let air in when stored long term and also let light in, where as cans are air tight and don’t let light through. The following pics from Homebrew Beer Magazine.

 

[ike8228]

I was referring to his cans of extract which are like regular food tin cans in most cases. Your points are valid just not what I was referring too.

But on the note and not meant to get too off topic here, there are certain bees I prefer in a bottle versus a can. They just taste different to me.

 

[VikingBrewer]

I was referring to his cans of extract which are like regular food tin cans in most cases. Your points are valid just not what I was referring too.

But on the note and not meant to get too off topic here, there are certain bees I prefer in a bottle versus a can. They just taste different to me.

I was referring to his cans of extrac

“his” is me LOL
And I did get what you were referring to.

(Off Topic) I’m still on the fence taste wise Bottles vs Cans. Maybe my taste buds are not that sophisticated lol. I’ve reverted to, when buying, basic commercial beers in cans.

 

[VikingBrewer]

Day 6 update on brew from an older extract.

Past couple days only had a couple blurps in the airlock (I know not the be-all-end-all). Krausen has almost completely fallen and can start to see the brew below. Bubbles still forming and popping in the remaining krausen.

 

[VikingBrewer]

So I’m thinking of doing a secondary with the batch and adding more hops. I’m trying to decide between steeping the hops to a tea with the remainder of my hops or just adding them in teabags like I did in primary. Pros & cons of either method? How long in secondary for either method. Or should I scrap the whole adding hops in secondary and just bottle from primary? Would secondary with extra hops improve flavor or is this just wasting them? Remember this is a much older extract.

(sorry not sure how to rotate the image in this post)

 

[VikingBrewer]

Day 12 (since this was yesterday I guess it’s technically day 11 )
Outdated Cooper’s IPA experiment. The story so far.

I took my first FG reading 1012.

So I made a hop tea to add to a secondary. 17 grams of whole dried hops.

I ended up with more tea than expected. I guess that small pot held more fluid than I thought.

I am wondering about putting the strained tea back on the stove and reduce. I’m wondering if I should bring back to a boil or simmer until volume is reduced.

Or skip and just add tea as is. Should I only add 1/2 or all into the secondary? I’m wondering about how the flavor and aroma would change if at all if I reheated the tea and over time vs leaving as is.

I have not pasteurized the tea. Does that really matter? My concern is heating to those temperatures would remove flavor and aroma.

 

[VikingBrewer]

The saga continues, Day 14.

Well here we go, either this will be wonderful or a big flop! Finally adding the hop tea I made the other day to the IPA. Racking off into the secondary fermenter taking in account to minimize adding any oxygenation. Now to sit and settle for 48hrs before bottling.

 

[VikingBrewer]

Yesterday was bottling day for this old Cooper’s IPA with dry hops in primary and hop tea infused secondary.

Taste tested and, in my opinion, considering this was made with Extract with a best before date of 17/02/03, with the additions of the extra hops, this is so far a very drinkable brew! Can’t wait until they have bottle conditioned! I’ll add my thoughts after conditioning.

 

[VikingBrewer]

Today is tasting day for the Hopped IPA! Bottled four weeks ago. Dry hops added during primary fermentation then about 1L of home brewed hop tea added to the secondary fermentation. The hop flavors are SO good! I know older kits get darker but did turn out a bit darker than expected, even so, I had to rate this a 4 out of 5 considering the kit is 7 years past due.

 

[ncbrewer]

That's a great looking beer. One suggestion: Use a glass large enough to hold the whole bottle in one pour. That will help reduce the amount of dregs that get stirred up into your glass. And leave a little in the bottom of the bottle.

 

[Cottonmouth]

Looks good
Thanks for documenting the whole process

 

[VikingBrewer]

That's a great looking beer. One suggestion: Use a glass large enough to hold the whole bottle in one pour. That will help reduce the amount of dregs that get stirred up into your glass. And leave a little in the bottom of the bottle.

Thanks ncbrewer, and yes I do have a large enough glass.....

....this was from a previous batch of Real Ale I did. I actually don’t get much sediment in the bottom of my bottles. They come out almost completely clear I can pour my beer just like commercial beers without fear of sediment in my glass. The very small amount that is there, is basically just a haze in the bottom. The only time I get excessive sludge at the bottom of my bottles is the last 3-6 where I get greedy and tip the fermenter to get every last bit of goodness out. But only I drink those ones.

 

[VikingBrewer]

Looks good
Thanks for documenting the whole process

Thanks, this started out as just an experiment as it was “7 years” past it’s expiration date! So far I haven’t been able to stop drinking it, so Yummy!

 

[VikingBrewer]

10 weeks after bottling and I only have 2 bottles left. Dang that went fast!