turning cider to to apple mead

[bodhi86]

I started my first apple jack a week ago, but I pitched too much yeast for the one gallon and not enough suger. I was wondering if I could split my batch into 2 carboys and keep one applejack and add more suger and make the other one an apple mead by adding the neccesary amount of honey, my real question would be will the yeast that's already partying in my cider be killed by the introduction of 2.5 lbs of honey to its environment?

 

[Daze]

how do you figure you added to much yeast???

as to adding new sugars people do that all the time, especially when trying to max ABV. that will work no problem

 

[bodhi86]

i pitched a packet for 5 gallons in my one gallon carboy, so figure even if its not too much, i sill have plenty in there to get 2 batches of similar brews started off it

 

[Daze]

those "5 gallon" packs typically say on them "for 1-5 gallons" the truth of the matter is the yeast are going to multiply and when it is all said and done you will have 20 X that in a 1 gallon jug so its hard to pitch "to much" even if you put 5 or 10 packs in a 1 gallon jug all you would be doing is saving the yeast the trouble of reproducing and wasting some $$. The reason those packs have a gallon size on them is you want a culture right off that is big enough to dominate any other micro organisms. If you really wanted to you could take one little grain out of a pack of yeast and use it to start a 1 gallon jug. The problem is in the time it will take for such a small starter to take hold bacteria can also take hold and you have a much higher risk of the wine going bad. Think of the initial yeast like sun screen, not adding yeast is like not wearing any sun screen. in some conditions you will be fine in others you will get burned. Same with cider some times the wild yeast will take hold and it will be fantastic, other times it will be nasty. Add a full pack of 1-5 gallon yeast to one gallon is like wearing spf 50, in most cases you won't get burned. make sense???

 

[bodhi86]

thanks man, thats very helpful. i'll remember that for future brewing

 

[vze2hnvz]

You don't want to save the yeast the trouble of reproducing, you want them to reproduce. It's detrimental by not allowing the yeast to multiply enough before the sugars are spent, so less esters are produced that change the flavor profile. Also, not going through a full life cycle, makes for unhealthy yeast. Unhealthy/stressed yeast can produce some funky flavors on their own. I use Mr.Malty's pitch calculator, works for me.

 

[Daze]

You don't want to save the yeast the trouble of reproducing, you want them to reproduce. It's detrimental by not allowing the yeast to multiply enough before the sugars are spent, so less esters are produced that change the flavor profile. Also, not going through a full life cycle, makes for unhealthy yeast. Unhealthy/stressed yeast can produce some funky flavors on their own. I use Mr.Malty's pitch calculator, works for me.

that is all true but you would have to add 15 or 20 packs to "save the yeast the trouble of reproducing" the whole point of what I said was 1 pack in 1 gallon is not a problem.

 

[vze2hnvz]

I understand. "its hard to pitch "to much" even if you put 5 or 10 packs in a 1 gallon jug all you would be doing is saving the yeast the trouble of reproducing" I was just letting the OP know this isn't always the case, and why sometimes it's not.

 

[Bhunter87]

Either way, @ the original post, you can't over pitch.

To answer your other question, if you had let your 1gal ferment out completely, Te yeast is lying dormant on the bottom of your carboy. Not saying there aren't still active yeast, but you get the drift. I'm sure there are millions that know more than I do about all this, but I think if you racked half of it off, you'd have to repitch in the new container. Unless you added the sugars to your old one and left the other one alone.

I could be very wrong and if I am correct me.

Thanks

 

[Daze]

Because he only pitched it about a week ago, even if the cider appears "clear" there should still be plenty of active yeast in suspension and splitting out the batch and starting a mead should not be a problem at all. The only risk I can think of by adding all the honey at once would be for the fermentation to stick, however with only the 2.5 pounds he is talking about, that is highly unlikely.

 

[Bhunter87]

Because he only pitched it about a week ago, even if the cider appears "clear" there should still be plenty of active yeast in suspension and splitting out the batch and starting a mead should not be a problem at all. The only risk I can think of by adding all the honey at once would be for the fermentation to stick, however with only the 2.5 pounds he is talking about, that is highly unlikely.

You seem well versed so I have a question like this one.

I have an apple wine that I was going to freeze distill, but have decided to try to make a gallon of apple mead.

The wine has fermented out completely and is at +\-12%.

If I racked off a gallon and added honey, would I need to repitch for the gallon? And how much honey should I add?

 

[divi2323]

You don't need to pitch again. There is plenty of yeast left floating around to start chewing on the honey. But to prevent a stuck fermentation you might consider adding yeast energizer. You might check the mead forums for the specifics but my understanding is that honey takes a lot more time and effort for the yeast to eat it up.

 

[Bhunter87]

I figured I would need to add a nutrient, but I'm glad I don't need to repitch.

If I'm already at 12%, adding 1LB of honey to a gallon would make it HUGE I think. Would it be too big?

 

[Daze]

if the wine is still sitting on the lees I would rack off the wine above and intentionally get a little bit of the lees. I don't know that I would add that much honey at least not all at once and here is why. Depending on the yeast you used you are nearing its alcohol tolerance. Most wine yeasts max out at 14% to 15% where as some champaign yeasts will get you up to 18%. 1# of honey per gallon will add "about" 4% more ABV which will be more than a wine yeast can handle and nearing the tolerance of the champaign yeast. The closer you get to tolerance the slower the process becomes and the higher the risk of it sticking. Working with honey only adds to the challenges as was said above by divi2323. Honey is harder to ferment. If you add honey make sure you add nutrient/energizer, also add it slowly. I would not add more than .5# at first and let the yeast chew through that. If you used wine yeast stop there. if you used a higher tolerance yeast add another .5# of honey ONLY after the first .5# has fermented out. make sense???

 

[Bhunter87]

if the wine is still sitting on the lees I would rack off the wine above and intentionally get a little bit of the lees. I don't know that I would add that much honey at least not all at once and here is why. Depending on the yeast you used you are nearing its alcohol tolerance. Most wine yeasts max out at 14% to 15% where as some champaign yeasts will get you up to 18%. 1# of honey per gallon will add "about" 4% more ABV which will be more than a wine yeast can handle and nearing the tolerance of the champaign yeast. The closer you get to tolerance the slower the process becomes and the higher the risk of it sticking. Working with honey only adds to the challenges as was said above by divi2323. Honey is harder to ferment. If you add honey make sure you add nutrient/energizer, also add it slowly. I would not add more than .5# at first and let the yeast chew through that. If you used wine yeast stop there. if you used a higher tolerance yeast add another .5# of honey ONLY after the first .5# has fermented out. make sense???

Perfectly.

I used wyeast's cider yeast actually, so it may not be fermented out completely as it is.... I haven't taken a gravity reading yet, I just know what the OG was.

IF it's too big for the yeast I used, can I pitch a bigger yeast? Or is repitching another type bad?!

I've only made beer so I've never been confronted with this problem!

 

[Daze]

If you used cider yeast I believe (not 100% sure) that it is far closer to brewers yeast and 12% to 13% is the max ABV. I don't know for sure so if any one else knows pleas correct my statement. In that case I would not add any honey unless you plan on diluting the cider with water to bring down the ABV. pitching a different yeast is not recommended they don't always play well together and that can cause off flavors. Before you do anything to it I would get an FG to see exactly where you are at

 

[Bhunter87]

I'll check it today and post my results.

Thanks