Trying to make Ayinger Weizenbock

[O-Ale-Yeah]

Hello all, I am hoping to brew a Belgium amber ale with a taste as close as possible to Ayinger Weizenbock. I have tried 5 of 6 different weizenbocks and for me, none of them are as good as Ayinger's and I can't find a clone recipe.

I modeled this based on general weizenbock recipes and I'm not sure how I can get close to the Ayinger taste.

7 lbs Belgium Wheat
4 lbs Belgium Pilsner
2 lbs German Wheat Malt
1 lbs Belgium Biscuit
.25 lbs German Carafa 1

WLP410 Belgian Wit II Ale Yeast
52 grams Hallertau Mittelfruh

 

[Pappers_]

Weizenbock is its own style, a German style. I don't think aiming for a Belgian amber ale will get you to where you want to go. While there are commonalities between the German wheat beers and Belgian beers generally, there are also distinctions.

Can't help you on a clone recipe, but you might take a look at the recipe database here. Look under ales, then use the pulldown menu to search for weisenbocks.

 

[Vale71]

To get to Belgium from Aying you need to drive a few hours more:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aying

A Weizenbock is basically a stronger Weizen, often with the barley malt portion of the grist made up partly or entirely by darker malts (Vienna and/or Munich). No roast malts. At least 50% wheat malt, no unmalted adjuncts as they are "verboten" in Germany. Aim for an OG between 16 and 18°P, use traditional German hops only for bittering and use a traditional German Weizen yeast. Make an adequately sized starter. Weizenbocks usually have lower carbonation than lighter versions of wheat beer to increase the slick mouthfeel.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

Thanks Vale71, much appreciated.does OG 16 mean 1.06?

 

[Jayjay1976]

Why all the Belgian ingredients? Ayinger is from Germany. Use all German ingredients, including yeast strain, to get in the ballpark. I just finished a pretty good weizenbock, 60/40 German wheat/German vienna fermented with Bavaria wheat yeast.

 

[Vale71]

I think we've cleared that up. My link even had a map...
Yes, 16°P would be OG 1.060. That's actually the minimum legal requirement for a beer to be called a "Bock" in Germany.

 

[Qhrumphf]

16P is more like 1.066. 1.060 is maybe 14.9P

And as said, it's German, not Belgian.

 

[Vale71]

You're right, I messed up the rounding.
An Ayinger would actually say "It's Bavarian, not German".

 

[Pappers_]

I think we've cleared that up. My link even had a map... .

Not at all. I may be wrong but I very much doubt that Ayinger uses a Belgian Witbier yeast strain.

 

[Lefou]

Wyeast 3068 or White Labs WLP 300.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

Thanks! Holly molly, Bavarian VS. Belgium; lol, they both start with B so I just kept going down the ingredient list. Ok, based on the recommendations, how about this one? Maybe close to Ayinger Weizenbock?

SRM 15, ABV 7%, OG 1.072, FG 1.018

8 lbs. German Wheat Malt
5 lbs. German Pilsner
1 lbs. Belgium Biscuit (I don't know if Belgium Biscuit belongs in a Bavarian Weizenbock)
0.33 German Carafa 1
Hefeweizen Ale Yeast WLP300
52 grams Hallertau Mittelfruh

Edit: for some reason the hop name copied as a link.

 

[Lefou]

I would leave out the Carafa. The color it will add isn't needed as the beer seems to be golden amber from the descriptions I've found. You're not making a Dunkel version.
Belgian biscuit might be acceptable if you're looking for a darker style but personally I might substitute German light Munich 6-9L or even Munich 10L to keep the color to the lighter side. BJCP shows SRM range between 6-25, but I have a suspicion that going lighter in color will be a better match for your beer and water profile.
If treating your water, use soft spring water and add a bit of calcium chloride for a malty profile. If you can step mash, start out near 125F for a protein rest, then raise to saccharification temps near 152F. If you mash lower than 150F-152F you might run the chance for a drier beer than you planned.
**EDIT** Add 2-4% sauermalz for mash pH** It's more or less a natural way to add lactic acid grain to optimize your mash. You are looking at trying to maximize your mash efficiency and adding the sour malt to the mix will help.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

Thanks Lefou, I'll definitely swap that cars out for Munich. Should I always do a protein rest or only when recommend in relation to specific grist?

 

[Lefou]

Protein rest is not always recommended but with the amount of wheat you have it can cause a sticky mash and inefficient conversions - especially if you use grain that isn't fully modified. Some European grain is like this.
My brewshop carries Avangard, Weyermann, and Dingemans Belgian malt. I've had issues before but mostly when my malt was being milled and poorly ground by the brewshop. I was getting sub-standard conversions starting out as a noob all grain brewer and had to look for solutions online.
Wheat malt can be finely ground, more so than barley. It doesn't have to be flour but grind well.
http://www.howtobrew.com/book/section-3/how-the-mash-works/the-protein-rest-and-modification

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

Thanks Lefou, I'll definitely do that.