Trying to learn Bru'N Water: What am I doing wrong?

[italarican]

I've been reading about water for brewing. I'm planning to just use distilled water for now since I don't have a water analysis report, may be moving any month now (house hunting!), and have easy access to distilled water.

I'm making a stout and, based on what I've read and want to improve from my last batch, am shooting for a mash pH of 5.5. Grain bill doesn't seem to have a ridiculous amount of roasted malts, yet my calculations suggest I need to put what seems to be a hefty dose of baking soda/chalk to achieve that. From what I've read here, that shouldn't be the case, even for a stout with acidic roasted malts.

Below are stills of what I entered. If I remove the baking soda and chalk, it calculates my mash pH at 4.76. I think I must be doing something wrong or not understanding a part of the program. I didn't know what to do the sparge acidification tab, but tinkering with that doesn't seem to do much.

Anything to help me better understand what I should be doing here would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Yooper]

I think there are a couple of things I'd suggest before going further down this rabbit hole.

First, I'd change the oats from 10 SRM to about 3, even if you're toasting. You're not kilning to a high SRM with the oven, and if you thing of dark kilned basemalts like Munich 10L, it's a whole different kettle of fish, at least to my mind.

Then I'd ditch the gypsum from the additions. I'd also get rid of chalk, and change any alkalinity additions to baking soda.

Then see where you are.

 

[italarican]

I'd change the oats from 10 SRM to about 3, even if you're toasting. You're not kilning to a high SRM with the oven, and if you thing of dark kilned basemalts like Munich 10L, it's a whole different kettle of fish, at least to my mind.

Noted. Thanks for that.

Then I'd ditch the gypsum from the additions. I'd also get rid of chalk, and change any alkalinity additions to baking soda.

Pure removal of gypsum and chalk (leaving CaCL2 and baking soda the same, plus oat 3 SRM) = 5.32 pH

Here's bumping the baking soda to get back at 5.5 pH. If I understand correctly, calcium is a bit on the low side, but the chloride looks ok for a rich-bodied stout (this is going to be a french toast stout w/ maple/cinnamon/vanilla, so I'm looking for a little more body).

 

[mabrungard]

I second what Yooper says. In addition, that is actually a pretty acidic grist with 14% roast and 3% dark crystal.

Use baking soda since its a reliable alkalinity provider. Chalk is not, unless properly dissolved. Don't worry too much about the sodium content reported for the mashing water since that ion will be diluted by the sparging water quality (which has little or no sodium). You can estimate the final sodium content yourself, but the Supporter's version of Bru'n Water performs that calculation for you.

 

[italarican]

I second what Yooper says. In addition, that is actually a pretty acidic grist with 14% roast and 3% dark crystal.

Use baking soda since its a reliable alkalinity provider. Chalk is not, unless properly dissolved. Don't worry too much about the sodium content reported for the mashing water since that ion will be diluted by the sparging water quality (which has little or no sodium). You can estimate the final sodium content yourself, but the Supporter's version of Bru'n Water performs that calculation for you.

Thanks. The sodium issue makes sense and is reassuring.

Is the recommendation on just focusing on CaCl2 rather than that and gypsum for simplicity, or is there another benefit? I was thinking the gypsum additions would allow a boost in calcium without raising chloride too high, but I guess at these levels that doesn't matter (and actually that level of chloride in isolation looks solid)?

 

[ba-brewer]

@OP, you have the batch size set to 5.3gal, do you have a huge boil off?

I don't think this will effect the mash ph calculation but the total batch volume should be the post boil amount not what you are putting in your fermentor.

If you are worried about the amount of baking soda being added you could try adding the calcium to the kettle after the mash. Requires some messing around to find values in the free version, but the supporters version has an option to automatically do the calculations.

 

[italarican]

@OP, you have the batch size set to 5.3gal, do you have a huge boil off?

I don't think this will effect the mash ph calculation but the total batch volume should be the post boil amount not what you are putting in your fermentor.

I don't normally have a huge boil off, but my notes indicate when I brewed this before, I got 6.33 gallons of pre-boil wort that turned into 5.25 gallons post-boil (just a shade under 5.25 gallons ended up in the carboy).

 

[mabrungard]

Is the recommendation on just focusing on CaCl2 rather than that and gypsum for simplicity, or is there another benefit? I was thinking the gypsum additions would allow a boost in calcium without raising chloride too high, but I guess at these levels that doesn't matter (and actually that level of chloride in isolation looks solid)?

Increasing the sulfate level is fine for some styles. It depends on your preference. Sulfate helps dry the beer finish. That can be pleasant in some styles (and dryness isn't just for hoppy or bitter styles). Having a bit of dryness can help keep an overly malty or cloying beer 'balanced'.

 

[italarican]

Increasing the sulfate level is fine for some styles. It depends on your preference. Sulfate helps dry the beer finish. That can be pleasant in some styles (and dryness isn't just for hoppy or bitter styles). Having a bit of dryness can help keep an overly malty or cloying beer 'balanced'.

Makes sense. In fact I've been really impressed by some dry but still rich 10+% Imperial Stouts in recent years. I'm not shooting for that for this particular beer, so doesn't seem like a worry this go around. Much thanks.