Trouble shoot

[jibs]

Hi guys

I've been brewing solidly for about a year now and am happy with my progress. All my beers are drinkable and fairly enjoyable but they do all have a bit of a taste that I wish they didn't.

The taste is quite faint, I don't it's an infection as I've had a few of those before. It's quite hard to describe. You could maybe describe it as being slightly tart but definitely not vinegar. Particularly with hop driven beers this taste seems to compete a bit with the hops.

I brew using dry extract with specialty grains and my process is as follows:
- Recipes usually taken from the forums or brewing books and scaled to 5,10 or 15L
- Mill then steep grains in small amount of water
- 60min, full volume boil (tap water), about a third of extract added at start of boil, rest at flame out
- Chilled with immersion chiller and ice bath then transferred to glass or plastic fermenter
- I use dry yeast packets but more recently yeast slurry saved from previous brews. My measurement when adding the slurry is quite crude
- I think my temperature control is OK, usually keeping ales within a few degrees of 18 degrees celcius (64F)
- Transferred to bottling bucket, sugar added, and bottled after around 2 weeks (and correct FG measured)
- I've never left one more than a few months but this taste is definitely still present at around 2 months from brew day.

I know there are so many possible areas that I could focus on but does anything jump out as being an obvious place to start?
Should I try using bottled water? Or switch to liquid extract?

Cheers

 

[dcrog]

The first thing to jump out at me was "tap water".

You don't say whether you treated it for chlorine/chloramines.

 

[jibs]

I don't treat it with anything. It's Melbourne (Australia) tap water and from the limited info I can find it should be fine. Bit yeah, that is one area on my radar.
Would you just try a batch with bottled water? Or is treating the tap water easy?

 

[oujens]

One would have to see your water report. For me, I do all grain and tried using my tap water. I could control alkalinity, but my water's sodium and sulfate levels were quite volatile. I switched to Building my water profiles using RO and it has made a major improvement. I used to have a faint off-flavor that is no longer present. Check out the water primer on the Brew Science forum.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I'm fairly sure Melbourne water is similar to Tassies - quite close to pure rainwater (very soft) and not treated with chloramines.

Could the taste be described as an apple-y tartness? That's an indication of oxidation, but it does tend to age out of bottle conditioned beers.

 

[jibs]

Yep it could be described as apply tartness.

However I would have thought my process would have been similar to most people in terms of oxidation risk. Fermenter to bottling bucket via syphon then bottling wand attached to bottling bucket tap for bottling.

Are there any common ways to avoid over oxidation?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Yep it could be described as apply tartness.

However I would have thought my process would have been similar to most people in terms of oxidation risk. Fermenter to bottling bucket via syphon then bottling wand attached to bottling bucket tap for bottling.

Are there any common ways to avoid over oxidation?

It could possibly be related to the small batch sizes, though I doubt it.

How much head-space is in your fermenters? Maybe too much?

You could try bottling a batch using carbonation drops (no bottling bucket) to rule out an issue with that part of the process (not as a long term change, just to rule out that part of the process as being the culprit).

Do you move your fermenters around after fermentation has started? That can lead to oxidation if there is splashing (especially with the small batches.....surface area to volume is increased).

 

[Subdivisions]

I'd try brewing a batch with distilled water. If it comes out the same then you can rule out your water. Extract has already been processed with a proper water profile and doesn't need any extra minerals.

 

[ImNoExpert]

Some extract brewers complain of an extract "twang" which could be similar to what you are describing.

My other thought would be to eliminate any crystal malts. I always had a weird taste that followed my beer from recipe to recipe, batch to batch and I eventually eliminated the crystal malts in all but my darkest beers. Solved it right away.

Just a thought.

 

[jibs]

Thanks heaps guys, will look to try all of the above over time and hopefully one of them works!

 

[unionrdr]

It could also be something as simple as not giving the yeast time to clean up whatever it is after reaching a stable FG. When mine hit FG, I like to give it 3-7 days extra in primary to clean up & settle out clear or slightly misty before priming & bottling. By the time it's coming out of the fridge, they're clean & clear.

 

[joshesmusica]

Apply tartness sounds more like green beer (specifically acetaldehyde) than oxidation.
As for the temps, are you talking ambient temps or fermenter temps? If it's fermenter temps you could try warming it up to around 20 once fermentation starts ramping down (usually around day 5-7) and this should help that clean up phase go quicker.

Another question could be if before you started brewing had you tried a homebrew beer in a bottle? Or a craft beer that was bottle conditioned? When you're pouring your bottles of homebrew are you making sure to leave the yeast behind? If not, it could be that you're not used to having so much yeast flavor in your beer. The best way to help this problem is cold crashing for 3-4 days (3 days if you use gelatin). This will help no matter what anyways to just clear some stuff out of suspension.

My last question is are you watching your pitch rates? When I started doing 5L and 10L batches I was having some off flavor issues, and I pretty much narrowed it down to pitching way too much yeast. It's not commonly talked about cause most people are doing 19, 38, even 57L batches, but way over-pitching can lead to off-flavors as well, and is actually really easy to do in smaller batches. Especially if you're just saving slurry for the next batch. Imagine that people make a 2L starter for a normal sized 19L batch. You're essentially making a 5L starter which would be enough yeast for a really high OG 19L batch, or a normal OG larger batch.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

Acetaldehyde?? Related to too high fermentation temps?