DME Pilsner SMASH stuck @1.021

[MrFancyPlants]

I am using a tilt, which measured the OG at 1.063 and now reads 1.021. 1/2 of Kveik yeast on a 15G batch, trying to get orange esters to go with 1lb hopstand only citra hops.
I have been adding hot water to the tub the 15.5G torpedo is sitting in. The fermentation seems to have stalled when the temp dropped to the low 70’s . Boosted the temp up to around 100f but not getting much movement. It did seem to drop from 1.022 to 1.021 over a few days at elevated temps.

Give it more time at higher temp?

Let it sit and lager for a while at 73f?

Pour a pint and measure gravity with a hydrometer? Taste? Maybe a little residual sweetness isn’t so bad with the Pilsner DME?

Add some S05 to help finish it up? I think I could pressure transfer some in without introducing much oxygen.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Or, maybe a combo of the 3rd and 4th options.
Pour a pint to measure with classic hydrometer and give it a taste.

If it really isn’t quite there yet, I’ll boil up a little sugar, add in a pack of S05, and add one last dry hop before purging and letting it carb up naturally.

 

[dmtaylor]

It's probably finished. And the Tilt is definitely wrong if there is yeast or hops stuck to it. If you want it to dry out, I would do just as you've suggested and add US-05, that will help.

 

[fluketamer]

ahhh the 1020 curse - its prolly done. like taylor said .

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/the-1-020-curse.63896/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/curse-of-the-1-020.254924/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/1-020-strikes-again.618968/

i love extract brewing but hate extract hydrometer readings. lol


i think its all the unfermentables left in dme that gives the yeast a hard time but i dont know enough about it

 

[dmtaylor]

ahhh the 1020 curse - its prolly done. like taylor said .

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/the-1-020-curse.63896/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/curse-of-the-1-020.254924/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/1-020-strikes-again.618968/

i love extract brewing but hate extract hydrometer readings. lol


i think its all the unfermentables left in dme that gives the yeast a hard time but i dont know enough about it

Yep, the 1.020 curse. It's real, I know it from years ago when I was an extract brewer. It can be compensated for in advance, but is harder to deal with in a current batch. Check out question #3 at the bottom of my Q&A thing for extract brewing:

 

[mac_1103]

What brand of Pilsner DME? Which kveik?

Just FTR, I have done extract beers that made it below the 1.020 barrier without any special intervention, but most of my extract brews have been bigger beers designed to finish above the "curse" threshold.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

What brand of Pilsner DME? Which kveik?

Just FTR, I have done extract beers that made it below the 1.020 barrier without any special intervention, but most of my extract brews have been bigger beers designed to finish above the "curse" threshold.

Briess Pilsen light
And M12

Usually, I add some amylase into my DME as it is warming up to a boil.. not really sure if it helps, but it slipped my mind this time.

It was a big underpitch too. I read that Kveik likes it that way and I wanted to push the orange factor.

 

[mac_1103]

Briess says that all of their DME is 75% fermentable and M12 attenuates 77-82%. So I think you've got what you're going to get.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

From one of their recent product information sheets (emphasis in blue highlighting).

So 75% is a good starting point for estimating.

With Nottingham and US-05 (back when I was using it), I felt it would ferment a little more.

Currently with Verdant / New England, I estimate in the 72% - 75% range with pretty good results.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/1-020-strikes-again.618968/

FWIW, the original recipe in the above mentioned topic is all-grain, 60% golden promise and mashed at 154 rather than 147.

5.5# Golden Promise​

1.5# Flaked Barley​

10 oz Roasted Barley​

10 oz Dark Chocolate​

6 oz Caramunich​

6 oz Carapils​

4 oz Carafa II​

the yeast was WY1084 with an estimated

Kind of hard to blame DME (or LME) for this one.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/the-1-020-curse.63896/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/curse-of-the-1-020.254924/

These topics are from 2008 & 2011. I'm willing to leave the past in the past.

eta: when I skimmed "curse of the 1.020" looking for specific recipe/process details, it feels like that OP was brewing all-grain and using liquid yeast.

---

In the mid-2020s, my theory is that most of the "the 1020 curse" is similar to "extract twang" / "extract taste" / "new brewer taste": get the "five priorities" of brewing right and actual FG will match estimated FG.

---

Going back to #1, and with an eye to the 5 priorities (specifically fermentation temperature control), is a 30F change in temperature during fermentation reasonable for the specifc Kveik strain that was used?

---

eta: FWIW, I'm open minded, but highly skeptical, on the "1020 curse" when using DME/LME. Show me a detailed recipe with detailed notes

 

[Rish]

measure gravity with a hydrometer? Taste

I would do this. Tilt might be wrong on sg and you might like it as it is. Good luck!

 

[MrFancyPlants]

After elevating the temperatures for a few more days it was well stalled. Against my better judgement, I relieved the pressure, popped it open, fed 10oz of boiled sugar water and dumped a pack of S05, and another oz or so of citra dry hop in a sack. I sealed and flushed with some CO2. Last night it was @1.019 35PSI, seemingly finished so I boosted the temperature to 94f in via water bath. This morning 1.019 74f and 43psi. I bled to 40 psi and rolled it into the kegerator. I’m calling it done.

One question. If there is not much headspace and I add enough sugar to carb, does it need to vent to purge the O2?

I need to finish setting up the hop torpedo I have the materials for. But based on “sniffing the purge” I never get the hop aroma that I am after. The primary fermentation blow off smelled so nice, but that was 95% hop stand hops. How do I keep those aromatics.

 

[mac_1103]

This morning 1.019 74f and 43psi. I bled to 40 psi and rolled it into the kegerator. I’m calling it done.

One question. If there is not much headspace and I add enough sugar to carb, does it need to vent to purge the O2?

How long has it been under this much pressure? 40 PSI @ 74F is 3 volumes of CO2 at equilibrium.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

About a week maybe? But it is chilling now.

How long has it been under this much pressure? 40 PSI @ 74F is 3 volumes of CO2 at equilibrium.

 

[mac_1103]

In that case, I don't think you need to prime it. But there are ways to add sugar without opening the keg (so you wouldn't need to purge).

 

[Bassman2003]

How much yeast did you actually add? Your OP just says 1/2. Is that 1/2 a homebrew package?

Yes, if you already have 3 volumes of CO2, then why would you need to prime it?

 

[MrFancyPlants]

How much yeast did you actually add? Your OP just says 1/2. Is that 1/2 a homebrew package?

Yes, if you already have 3 volumes of CO2, then why would you need to prime it?

Initially I had 1/2 a homebrew pack. I was trying to push the orange by under pitching.

Then when it was stuck at 1.021 I vented and dry hopped added a full pack of S05, and primed with the hope it would flush out any C02 that snuck in. I purged also.

It worked a little. The tilt is going back and forward between 1.018 and 1.019. It is sweet but works with the orange and Citra hop stand. Closest I have gotten to a hazy yet.

The huge dry hops were not working for me. This does taste quite juicy.

Now if only I can get the floating dip tube working again. I put some stainless washers on it a couple batches ago and thought I solved it, but frustrating to have such a big batch not flowing. If I put the keg upside down, it flows, but I doubt that will last long.


Hmm

 

[Bassman2003]

It goes without saying 1/2 a pack for 15 gallons under pressure was quite an underpitch! When you say "added a full pack of US05 and primed do you mean you added additional yeast and sugar? If you did add sugar then it defeated your purpose of getting your attenuation to a better level. The US05 will immediately go for the sugar first. This will create more carbonation but will distract from your 1.021 problem.

Are you looking for advice or just sharing your experiences?

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Are you looking for advice or just sharing your experiences?

A little of both, but I don’t think 10oz of sugar will distract the S05 too much, but I could be wrong.

Mainly I just want to get the beer out without oxidation and/or stirring up the trub. Foaming floating dip tubes suck.

The flavor of the beer is pretty close to juicy haze voodoo ranger. I would call the fermentation a success.

 

[Bassman2003]

I think your first area to improve upon is pitching the proper amount of yeast. 1/2 a package is an underpitch for a 5 gallon batch. 15 gallons is a very large amount of wort. Pitching this low amount of cells creates a very high risk of the yeast just getting tired and not finishing strong. Also, if you ferment under pressure that adds more stress for the yeast.

It is tough to say how much the extract played a role in the higher attenuation or the yeast. The US05 definitely ate the sugar first then would move on to the wort sugars, if there were some around. US05 is a decent attenuator but not the best either. Next brew, start with more of the original yeast and see how the fermentation goes. 2 packs?

I do not make hazies, so no comments there. You probably want to look into keg purging either separately or hooked up to your fermentation gas to keep oxygen out of the transfer and keg.

 

[mac_1103]

You probably want to look into keg purging either separately or hooked up to your fermentation gas to keep oxygen out of the transfer and keg.

Maybe also look into methods of dry hopping without opening the fermenter or keg.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Maybe also look into methods of dry hopping without opening the fermenter or keg.

Yes I got a hop torpedo parted up, but haven’t implemented just yet. Next batch for sure.

I think I have a plan for transferring out. I am going to hook up a liquid line out to the gas post and try to set up a stillage to tilt the beer out. It will be tricky since I fermented in there. Not to mix in a bunch of trub.

Do you think I could tilt the whole kegerator on it’s side?

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I read you can’t run a mini fridge while tilted, so i’ll still use the gas’s out and stillage it into some purged smaller kegs.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Tapping out of the gas line when I give a tilt works, but ai’ll probably go ahead and transfer to some kegs over the weekend. I’ll be rocking it around and stirring up the dregs every time I take a pour otherwise, and I do want to give it a chance to clear up.
Not a bad juicy beer: