Trouble in Fuselville

[davecspp]

Hi all,

I'm a newbie to the brewing world. Did a kölsch mini-mash for my first and I was hooked, so I just up n decided to switch to all-grain. Things have been going swimmingly except that I had a hiccup with a double wit. What I can tell you is this:

- OG: 1.070 -> FG: 1.016 (target was 1.018)

- 2 weeks in the primary and 1 week in the secondary with AU summer hops

- average ferment temp was 67F

- tasted/tested last Friday and tasted wonderful with an SG of 1.018

- left for the weekend and came back late sunday to discover that my A/C died over the weekend. Temps over the weekend shot into the 80s outside. When I checked my thermo, indoor temp was 76 and this was at 10pm, so I can only surmise that it got up to around 80 inside

- checked on the beer and SG was 1.016 so I went ahead and bottled

- beer smelled fine when I opened the carboy

- left the dregs in the bottling bucket as a treat, but when I went to taste it I got a really good whiff of vodka and then tasted what I can only describe as wit beer with 2+ shots of aristocrat vodka thrown in the glass.

So my questions are:

1) could this be anything other than the dreaded fusel alcohols?
2) can i fix this with time, happy thoughts, and a nice cold refrigerator?
3) can drinking beer with fusel alcohols present cause health problems? I know MeOH is very small component of the fusel range, but the others aren't much better (they just don't metabolize to formaldehyde)

Thanks in advance!

 

[rodwha]

Fusel is created mostly within the first week of fermentation. Once it's done it's done. You should be good.

 

[Brewmenn]

I can't help you with your concern beyond recommending not tasting the week old dregs and expecting them to taste something other than horrible.

And I hate you for having 80° temps. I'm not sure what part of the planet you're on but on my part we haven't seem temps like that in 5 months.

 

[Brewmenn]

hummmm. double post.

 

[beerandloathinginaustin]

Yeah, I'd wait and taste the beer. You're probably good. I heard Jamil talking about those hops the other day. They sound intriguing.

 

[davecspp]

Dregs were not week old. It was the last inch or so of beer in the bottling bucket and I drank it right after bottling.

I'm in Austin. We're in the running with Paraguay for most bizarre weather on the planet. Each day is a new season.

The AU summer hops had an incredible aroma out of the package (pellets, got em at AHB). The nose coming out of the carboy was intense apricot and melon, just as described. Caught a bit of spice on the tail end, but that was probably the coriander in the wit. We'll see how it shakes out in a month or two.

 

[RM-MN]

Your average fermenting temperature doesn't matter, what does matter and what caused fusel alcohol is the temperature of the beer during the first 3 to 4 days when the ferment is really vigorous. If your beer temp went up then, that caused any fusel alcohol. Once the ferment slows down, temperature (within reason) doesn't affect your beer much at all.

 

[Norwaybrewer]

I know nothing about this, just had to throw out a LOL for your title. Good one

Sent from my HUAWEI P6-U06 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[Yooper]

Dregs were not week old. It was the last inch or so of beer in the bottling bucket and I drank it right after bottling.

I'm in Austin. We're in the running with Paraguay for most bizarre weather on the planet. Each day is a new season.

The AU summer hops had an incredible aroma out of the package (pellets, got em at AHB). The nose coming out of the carboy was intense apricot and melon, just as described. Caught a bit of spice on the tail end, but that was probably the coriander in the wit. We'll see how it shakes out in a month or two.

Bizarre weather is right! Isn't it supposed to be something like 27 degrees tomorrow night? Crazy.

Anyway, I'm hopeful that this is just a weird one time taste. The late spike in temperature shouldn't create fusels in a finished fermentation as was mentioned, as that is created at the start.

When you say that the average temperature for fermentation was 67 degrees, that is per a stick-on thermometer on the carboy? Did the temperature fluctuate alot during fermentation? That's when fusels and off-flavors would be created. How do you maintain fermentation temperatures in the 60s- do you have a set up to keep fermentation temperatures steady? Those are the things that would create issues with flavors.

 

[davecspp]

Thank you all for the feedback. I appreciate the insight.

I keep the fermenter in my closet. I have a digital thermometer that sits on top of the lid and I keep my place at a balmy 67 degrees, so the climate is well controlled. There definitely was not temp flux beyond +/- 1-2F degrees until the A/C choked and died. I don't know what the temp is inside the fermenter, but I've been operating off the assumption of "ambient + 4F = internal".

To be more direct, if this is not fusel, then wtf? As stated in the original post, the taste was great just a couple days prior.

Could too much time with dry hops cause such an off flavor?

I'm not tossing the beer any which way, but I would love to figure out if there was some sort of flaw in my system that I can avoid in the future. I refuse to share crap beer, so I dunno how many off batches my liver can handle...

 

[pharaohpierre]

I feel you dave, I open up my carboy sometimes and get a whiff of something strong that tingles my nostrils. I also assume it is fusel alcohols that I was trying to avoid but somehow failed at. I am hoping someone will respond with a answer for you that could help me out as well.

 

[rodwha]

What you are likely smelling is the CO2. Burns your nostrils, right?

It's been too long, and in the beginning when I created fusels, so I don't recall the actual taste of the beer/alcohol, but I sure do recall the nasty hangovers from just a few of them!

 

[pharaohpierre]

yeah it definitely burns my nostrils. And the weird thing is that I get the same smell no matter what type of yeast I use (I'm referring to Ale yeasts). When I pop the top of the carboy after primary, it is always this same burning smell. So I've been smelling the CO2 the whole time?

 

[rodwha]

That's my guess as uneducated as it is. But I've noticed the same thing. It steals your breath.

It would almost have to be CO2 if it's the same despite what you make. CO2 is heavy and just sits there.

Have you been able to try any of them yet? Does the taste of your beer seem normal?

 

[pharaohpierre]

That's the thing too, the taste is not quite where I want it to be. It's almost like tasting that carboy smell after fermentation. I'm currently brewing the same IPA recipe so I can perfect it. However, I use different yeasts to see what would happen. So far, I have brewed the same recipe 3 times with 3 different yeasts and that frustrating burning smell/taste is there (granted it's an IPA so the hops mask some of it but it still gets through).

Plus, the gravity of those beers were slightly higher than what the recipe called for, which is why I thought it would be fusel alcohols. But perhaps I need to just research more and figure things out. Not trying to hijack the thread

 

[rodwha]

Fusel alcohol is all about the fermentation temperature. That is for the first week or so.

Many allow there beer to warm up to room temp after that first week or so. I generally don't, but that's just me.

 

[ShaneHed13]

Ur AIR CONDITIONING went off and it was 80 DEGREES...

That is all, I live in Duluth, MN and, until now, I've been pumped with above 0 degrees...


Brewsume
Muntons Nut Brown - started December 15th, 2013, bottled January 3rd, 2014 - Mild off flavors suspected from high pitching temp, overall, a good first batch!

Muntons Irish Style Stout, brew day March 9th, 2014

 

[davecspp]

So to update: cracked open a gallon this past weekend with friends and it tasted superb. The aroma was pretty intense, but it gave way to a somewhat spicy wit that mellowed very nicely. Not even a hint of the - pretty horrid - taste/scent on bottling night.

Not at all sure what happened, but I won't complain about the results. Except that I didn't make enough. Time to up my batch size.

 

[rodwha]

 

[pharaohpierre]

Nice to hear it worked out Dave. I purposely lowered my fermentation temperature on my current ale to the high 50's, low 60's for the first few days. Let's see how this goes