Toying with no secondary

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eadavis80

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Brewed up over 60 batches now since I started brewing in January of 2014. I think I have put every batch, except maybe two wheat beers, in secondary. I usually harvest yeast, dry hop or just have always used a secondary (maybe I needed my primary before I bought others) or just it was my way of doing things. I've always been pretty happy with my beer and can't recall ever having an oxidation or infection due to using a secondary. Have an amber ale in the Bubbler now. Might just bottle after 3 weeks in the primary to see if I notice a difference, but I'm guessing the only real way to tell a difference would be to brew the same beer and go primary 10 days and secondary for 1-2 weeks and compare those, yes? In general, do you feel non-secondaried beers are better?
 
In my brewing, the primary vs. secondary thing has always been a personal process choice - not a quality choice. Sometimes it has made sense to rack the beer into another vessel; the majority of the time it hasn't. Secondary usually means more process and more stuff to clean, so I do it only when it makes sense (to me).

It's extremely well-established that secondary is just a technique in the brewer's arsenal, and is not necessary in any way to brew good beer. Conversely, if done properly, neither is it a detriment.
 
Yeah, that's what I figured I'd get as feedback. I have never considered racking as a burden or "work." Nor have I ever thought of making yeast starters or harvesting yeast "work" either. I guess I just enjoy pretty much every facet of the hobby that I have encountered. What prompted my OP was a Helles I had at my friend's yesterday that was not racked and I just thought it was really, really good.
 
I haven't used a secondary in years.Zero difference in beer.Some of the older rules have changed.
You NEED a secondary-false
You NEED to chill a fast as humanly possible-false,enter No Chill
You NEED to wait 6 weeks minimum or youll have green beer-False.(beer specific)Two week Grain to Glass Makes a mighty fine IPA
 
I've never "secondary" fermented a beer. I HAVE cold crashed in the primary fermenter then used kegs fitted with carb stones as a brite tank for carbonating and farther clearing before transferring to the serving keg. I find that this carbs faster (duh :tank:) and leaves additional trub behind. While the beer is perfectly clear without this step moving the keg will cause the beer to be cloudy again :mad:

For yeast I overbuild by starter then save the "new" yeast for the next time instead of washing.
 
Starting to go over to secondary for my IPA's for dry hopping. This is a process thing because I am using a pump to agitate the hops reducing dry hop time to 24 hours and I don't want to agitate the cake whilst doing so. Also allows me to crash and remove the beer from the cake potentially reducing yeast hop oil absorption.

However I can transfer as a close system under C02, I would use secondary unless I could do that especially with an IPA where I want to keep every last big of O2 out.
 
Don't have a fridge to "cold crash" so that's not an option here. Also, I don't keg so none of that stuff applies for me either, but thanks for the input anyway :)
 
eadavis80 said:
Don't have a fridge to "cold crash" so that's not an option here. Also, I don't keg so none of that stuff applies for me either, but thanks for the input anyway :)
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As far as I can tell the secondary process came from emulating a combination of the commercial processes of dumping yeast (because of autolysis) and brite tanks.

Yeast autolysis is not a concern with the amount of beer (pressure) that we deal with on a homebrew scale with modern yeast and without carbing or cold crashing there is no need for a brite tank.
 
I would say for 99.9% of instances it unnecessary unless you want to harvest the yeast and your adding fermenter additions of some kind. Even for an IPA is isn't necessary, I have just become obsessed with get the biggest hop aroma possible. If I had a conical I would keep it all in primary.

So I support your move to drop secondary, go for it.
 
If I didn't keg, I'd go with an extended primary (maybe 3 weeks instead of 10-14 days) simply to avoid the additional transfer and still minimize the amount of yeast that ends up in the bottle. Sounds like you have a process that works, so unless you really feel like you need to change something up, I think I'd just stick to what you know works.
 
There are several factors that might induce someone to use a secondary vessel. I don't think it's necessary for most beer, but I use one whenever I'm bulk aging a big beer.

For most of my beers I simply use a keg as a secondary vessel. The beer will condition and clear in there as well as a "secondary" vessel, and I only rack once.
 
So currently I'm doing a Grapefruit Sculpin Clone, requires dry hopping, naturally. It's been in primary for 6 days, probably needs one more day to reach my FG. I've always transferred into secondary for dry hop.

So what I'm hearing/reading is just keep the batch in the primary fermenter bucket and pitch hops/grapefruit? Just keep the beer on the cake in addition to the dry hops?
 
Are you doing the NB clone? My buddy and I just bottled that a few weeks ago if it is. We lost a fair amount of beer to all the dry hopping and grapefruit peel additions. HE only got 40 out of the batch, but he said it tasted good. I have not had it yet myself.
 
I would use a paint strainer bag when you transfer that beer out of the primary into the keg or bottling bucket. My buddy's siphon kept getting clogged with all that hoppy graperfruit crap. None of it settled very well at all and we didn't have the ability to cold crash.
 
eadavis80 said:
I would use a paint strainer bag when you transfer that beer out of the primary into the keg or bottling bucket. My buddy's siphon kept getting clogged with all that hoppy graperfruit crap. None of it settled very well at all and we didn't have the ability to cold crash.
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This is very good advice.
 
Well, nearly 2 weeks in the bottle and I had my first non-secondaried beer last night. After 2 years of brewing I figured I'd try to not rack a beer. The beer was AIH's Amber Ale extract kit. No dry hopping on this one. Well, the beer is very good and just as clear as any beer I have secondaried and I did not cold crash, nor have I ever. I'm not sure it's BETTER than beers I have racked and while I'm certainly not AGAINST racking, I guess I might have finally converted to the primary only club - as long as I don't "need" to. Ironically, as I write this, the beer I'm currently working on - a chocolate stout - will be racked atop cocoa nibs next weekend. Like anything else here, the only way to draw your own conclusions is to do it yourself and see what works for you.
 
I only use a secondary under certain conditions.

1. I need the yeast in the primary but don't want to bottle the same day.
2. Want to dry hop but don't want that hop flavor in the yeast I'm saving.
 
So how many are using a bottling bucket for primary fermentation? I am leaning to that and if the first bottle or two has to much yeast oh well... I use a hop bag so no hop debris to speak of.
 
I never have, but as long as it's sanitized I guess there is no reason no to. I have 2 6.5 gallon buckets and a 6.5 gallon Bubbler so I use those.
 
MaryB said:
So how many are using a bottling bucket for primary fermentation? I am leaning to that and if the first bottle or two has to much yeast oh well... I use a hop bag so no hop debris to speak of.
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I thought of that when I brewed last time but you then really can't use the bottling bucket for the primary sugar solution if you're going to bottle-condition.
 
Well, you could if you racked the beer from the bottling bucket into a secondary and then transferred back over to the bottling bucket on bottling day - oh the irony given the name of the thread...
 
MaryB said:
So how many are using a bottling bucket for primary fermentation? I am leaning to that and if the first bottle or two has to much yeast oh well... I use a hop bag so no hop debris to speak of.
Click to expand...

I don't like that idea.
I cold crash in my primary, but by racking to a bottling bucket I can get a good mix of the bottling sugar into the beer, when bottling.
I think you are more likely to get more yeast and sediment using the bottling bucket as a primary. And I think your beer/sugar mix will be less even, unless you risk stirring up the sediment at the bottom.

When you rack, you pull from the top, and its only at the end that you come near the sediment. But when bottling, you risk constantly disturbing (slightly) the sediment.
 
Glucose laden wort, rocket fuel for yeast, fermentation is rapid, making secondary unnecessary. When glucose converts to maltose and maltotrios during the maltose rest, secondary comes into play... It depends on the brewing process and quality of the malt. Higher modification, less enzyme content. High protein, reduced sugar content.
 
So decided to experiment with no secondary brew it in the bottling bucket. My bottling bucket spigots are up a good 1 1/4 inches off the bottom so it shouldn't pull much yeast into the bottles. I can always use the first couple bottles up first if it does. Those 1 week carbonation taste test bottles!
 
Mary are you going to add sugar to every single bottle for carbonation? IMO it's easier to rack from primary to bottling bucket where you can add sugar solution only one time.
 
Actually, I find that using carbonation drops, Domino Dots, or sugar measured by weight with a 0.1 gram scale are easier solutions than a bottling bucket. Those are a PITA to me. To each his/her own!
 
I just cant bring myself to not secondary. I've been doing it that way for over 20 years.
 

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