American Pale Ale Three Floyds Zombie Dust Clone

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I would recommend throwing in 4 to 5 more pounds of 2 row with a couple packets of S-04. This the best brew I've made yet, next to the LH milk sout clone.
 
Well damn! Brew day seemed to be going great. Beautiful sunny Texas day. But for some reason my efficiency sucked and I put 5.75 gallons of 1.056 wort into the fermenter. Used the original recipe exactly.

So any suggestions? How will this turn out 9 points low? Can I bump it up by adding some sugar to the fermenter? Any ideas are greatly appreciated.
 
TxBigHops said:
Well damn! Brew day seemed to be going great. Beautiful sunny Texas day. But for some reason my efficiency sucked and I put 5.75 gallons of 1.056 wort into the fermenter. Used the original recipe exactly.

So any suggestions? How will this turn out 9 points low? Can I bump it up by adding some sugar to the fermenter? Any ideas are greatly appreciated.
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Something went wrong somewhere. Poor mash efficiency maybe or maybe you didn't boil off enough. MAybe just try to find where it went wrong, hope u take good notes, and just figure this a really flavorful session beer and rebrew again. I haven't been doing this long enough to know if sugar would help since you had a low of of to begin with but there are only so many sugars the yeast can eat and they may do that and then your set at your FG. What's your expected FG?
 
olotti said:
Something went wrong somewhere. Poor mash efficiency maybe or maybe you didn't boil off enough. MAybe just try to find where it went wrong, hope u take good notes, and just figure this a really flavorful session beer and rebrew again. I haven't been doing this long enough to know if sugar would help since you had a low of of to begin with but there are only so many sugars the yeast can eat and they may do that and then your set at your FG. What's your expected FG?
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I'm still dialing in my all grain process. Received a new Igloo 10 gallon mash tun for Christmas. This is my second batch with the system. On my first batch I didn't run enough water into the kettle, plus boiled too long and gravity ended a little high. Beer still turned out good.

I also put all my recipes into BeerSmith. This one gave me a projected OG of 1.064 and a projected FG of 1.016. My mash went perfectly. Hit 152 degrees on the nose. However, Beersmith recommended batch sparging at 168, which I did, but after adding the sparge water, my grain bed temps dropped back to the low 150s. Could that have been the problem?

As far as volumes, I put 7.25 gallons into the kettle and 5.75 gallons into the fermenter. I had originally planned to put 5.5 in the fermenter. Could 1/4 gallon make that much difference? Well obviously it does have an effect, but it couldn't be the entire 8-9 points.
 
I batch sparge with 185-190 F water get the grain bed up to 168ish. This essentially acts as my mash out.
 
TxBigHops said:
I'm still dialing in my all grain process. Received a new Igloo 10 gallon mash tun for Christmas. This is my second batch with the system. On my first batch I didn't run enough water into the kettle, plus boiled too long and gravity ended a little high. Beer still turned out good.

I also put all my recipes into BeerSmith. This one gave me a projected OG of 1.064 and a projected FG of 1.016. My mash went perfectly. Hit 152 degrees on the nose. However, Beersmith recommended batch sparging at 168, which I did, but after adding the sparge water, my grain bed temps dropped back to the low 150s. Could that have been the problem?

As far as volumes, I put 7.25 gallons into the kettle and 5.75 gallons into the fermenter. I had originally planned to put 5.5 in the fermenter. Could 1/4 gallon make that much difference? Well obviously it does have an effect, but it couldn't be the entire 8-9 points.
Click to expand...

Since this is only your second all grain batch, you're still figuring out your system's mash efficiency. Your system may be working at a lower efficiency than what you've got plugged into BS. This will result in lower a preboil Gravity than what the recipe has.

Did you check your preboil Gravity? If so, was it what BS stated it would be? If not, I HIGHLY recommend getting a refractometor (if you don't have one already). They make taking gravity samples during mash and boil a breeze.
 
barrooze said:
Since this is only your second all grain batch, you're still figuring out your system's mash efficiency. Your system may be working at a lower efficiency than what you've got plugged into BS. This will result in lower a preboil Gravity than what the recipe has.

Did you check your preboil Gravity? If so, was it what BS stated it would be? If not, I HIGHLY recommend getting a refractometor (if you don't have one already). They make taking gravity samples during mash and boil a breeze.
Click to expand...

Yes, I did take a preboil gravity reading. It was 1.048, only 1 point low. That makes me suspect that one of my readings was not correct. Hopefully it was the post boil reading. And yes, both readings were adjusted for temperature. I have been thinking about getting a refractometer. Probably a wise investment.

At least I don't have any problems with fermentation. Here it is just 16 hours after pitching!

Zombie Dust 16 hours.jpg
 
I’m puzzled by you temp results. Adding 168 deg F water to your 152 mash can’t have resulted in a reduction of temp to 150. You have to of bleed heat somewhere or missed the number you expressed. Did you leave the cooler open bringing your water to 168 and your 152 temp was in fact lower? Did you lose a huge amount of heat transferring the 168, it would have to drop below 152 to reduce the combined temp? Point being, it isn’t physically possible to add 168 to one 152 and reduce below 152. Depending of volumes if I were to guess, you should have hit upper 150s. You will want to know for future reference where you're bleeding heat.

Additionally, I don’t understand the point of adding 168, it won’t bring you up to mash out temps. You want to hit a combined 168 for the mash out, which means you need to add around 190 to boiling depending on the volume you’re adding. You want to mash out for two reasons. First, it increases viscosity, which helps in lautering. If I was to bet this is were you got poor extraction, sugars didn’t become viscous enough to drain, thereby leaving sugars behind. Second, the mash out denatures the enzyme activity, which results in setting your fermentability mixture. Second point would not have resulting in poor extraction.

Key take away, I would check BeerSmith. Did you misread the infusion step that 168 were your target for the mixture and you should have added water at a good amount higher?

Otherwise, all I’ve got to add is to check water pH. Along with seconding aStoutObserver. Did you adjust for temp when taking the gravity reading; couldn’t EASILY of been just a reading mistake as gravity goes down significantly with increased temp.
 
In_Vino_Veritas said:
I’m puzzled by you temp results. Adding 168 deg F water to your 152 mash can’t have resulted in a reduction of temp to 150. You have to of bleed heat somewhere or missed the number you expressed. Did you leave the cooler open bringing your water to 168 and your 152 temp was in fact lower? Did you lose a huge amount of heat transferring the 168, it would have to drop below 152 to reduce the combined temp? Point being, it isn’t physically possible to add 168 to one 152 and reduce below 152. Depending of volumes if I were to guess, you should have hit upper 150s. You will want to know for future reference where you're bleeding heat.

Additionally, I don’t understand the point of adding 168, it won’t bring you up to mash out temps. You want to hit a combined 168 for the mash out, which means you need to add around 190 to boiling depending on the volume you’re adding. You want to mash out for two reasons. First, it increases viscosity, which helps in lautering. If I was to bet this is were you got poor extraction, sugars didn’t become viscous enough to drain, thereby leaving sugars behind. Second, the mash out denatures the enzyme activity, which results in setting your fermentability mixture. Second point would not have resulting in poor extraction.

Key take away, I would check BeerSmith. Did you misread the infusion step that 168 were your target for the mixture and you should have added water at a good amount higher?

Otherwise, all I’ve got to add is to check water pH. Along with seconding aStoutObserver. Did you adjust for temp when taking the gravity reading; couldn’t EASILY of been just a reading mistake as gravity goes down significantly with increased temp.
Click to expand...

Thanks for such a great reply! So much good info. This is why HBT rocks.

I'm looking at BeerSmith right now. It clearly says to sparge with 168 degree water, not to bring the grain bed up to 168. Lesson learned. I won't make this mistake again.

My grain bed was just a touch under 152 at the beginning of the mash. An hour later it had dropped to 150. After a vorlauf and draining the mash water, I assume the grain temp would have dropped into the 140's. I do leave the cooler top off while I'm measuring out the sparge water. I drain two quarts at a time from my HLT into a pitcher and pour it slowly over the grain bed. I measured the temp of the water after I had drained it into the pitcher. I think the first sparge was 168 and the second was 166. I assume it may have lost some more temp while being poured over the bed. After pouring 4 or 5 pitchers, I stir it, then let it rest for 10 minutes with the lid back on prior to a vorlauf, and then draining it to transfer to my kettle. I don't remember if I took the temp of the grain bed after the first sparge, but I did after the second, (after pouring and stirring) and I think it was somewhere in the low, or maybe mid 150's, not exactly 150.
 
Just brewed this yesterday as my 2nd AG batch. Messed up a bit and did my batch sparge with 3 gallons instead of 4, so I ended up with about 4 gallons in primary at OG=1.070.

Any thoughts on how this might come out considering I used all the hops of a 5 gallon batch? Should I adjust the dry-hopping at all?
 
Bottling up batch #2 of this recipe tonight! Hydrometer sample tasted wonderful when I was adding the dry hops! Can't wait for this to condition as I slammed through my first batch of this in less than a month! :mug:
 
TxBigHops said:
Thanks for such a great reply! So much good info. This is why HBT rocks.

I'm looking at BeerSmith right now. It clearly says to sparge with 168 degree water, not to bring the grain bed up to 168. Lesson learned. I won't make this mistake again.

My grain bed was just a touch under 152 at the beginning of the mash. An hour later it had dropped to 150. After a vorlauf and draining the mash water, I assume the grain temp would have dropped into the 140's. I do leave the cooler top off while I'm measuring out the sparge water. I drain two quarts at a time from my HLT into a pitcher and pour it slowly over the grain bed. I measured the temp of the water after I had drained it into the pitcher. I think the first sparge was 168 and the second was 166. I assume it may have lost some more temp while being poured over the bed. After pouring 4 or 5 pitchers, I stir it, then let it rest for 10 minutes with the lid back on prior to a vorlauf, and then draining it to transfer to my kettle. I don't remember if I took the temp of the grain bed after the first sparge, but I did after the second, (after pouring and stirring) and I think it was somewhere in the low, or maybe mid 150's, not exactly 150.
Click to expand...

Looks like this brew is going to turn out drier than the real Zombie Dust. Five days in and gravity is already down to 1.010. Citra aroma is fantastic. Gonna start the dry hop in a day or two and bottle next weekend. I wish it were going to have a little more body, but many new things were learned from this brew and my next beer will be better.

I'm thinking since it's lower gravity than it should be, and there's plenty of hop aroma and bitterness already, that I will cut the dry hop back from 3 to 2 ounces. Does that make sense?
 
TxBigHops said:
Looks like this brew is going to turn out drier than the real Zombie Dust. Five days in and gravity is already down to 1.010. Citra aroma is fantastic. Gonna start the dry hop in a day or two and bottle next weekend. I wish it were going to have a little more body, but many new things were learned from this brew and my next beer will be better.

I'm thinking since it's lower gravity than it should be, and there's plenty of hop aroma and bitterness already, that I will cut the dry hop back from 3 to 2 ounces. Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

I'd keep with the same dry hop amount that may mask any perceived extra bitterness. My first batch turned out the same way and I loved it being new to all grain it made me see how much the hops shine with that slight drop in Gravity. Plus I had a chance to a/b the two and the people that tasted it either said my clone was spot on or they actually preferred the hb version. in my follow up batches of this I shoot for a 1.010 FG now.
 
Anyone have the FG turn out real low? My OG was 1.065 on the money. 1pack of s-04 and it went down to 1.000!! I believe that is 8.6%abv with 98% attenuation. I took multiple gravity samples and all were the same. Mashed at 150. Fermented starting at 64 then finished at 70 for a few days before cold crashing. Beer is bone dry and pretty bitter.
 
I'm an idiot and need some advice. I brewed this one on Thursday and everything went great! Except, my location for my carboy was not thought out very well. I put it in my closet because my basement has been sitting around 55F and I was concerned it would be too cool. However, I didn't realize my dryer vent runs directly under my closet, bringing my carboy to a nice warm 78F. I have read that US04 gives off a tart taste above 68F.

So, do I go to the LHBS for more grain and re-brew, or stick it out and see what happens? Total time at 78F is 36 hours. Almost all activity has subsided.
 
rbdono2 said:
I'm an idiot and need some advice. I brewed this one on Thursday and everything went great! Except, my location for my carboy was not thought out very well. I put it in my closet because my basement has been sitting around 55F and I was concerned it would be too cool. However, I didn't realize my dryer vent runs directly under my closet, bringing my carboy to a nice warm 78F. I have read that US04 gives off a tart taste above 68F.

So, do I go to the LHBS for more grain and re-brew, or stick it out and see what happens? Total time at 78F is 36 hours. Almost all activity has subsided.
Click to expand...
You will absolutely have some esters there. I have not found fermenting warm with S04 to be tart...more super fruity. Nothing to do but wait it out.

Two things:

Why did you use S04 for this...seems the wrong yeast for the job even though it is one of my favorites?

Primary fermentation is probably over so honestly leave it where it is for a week or to and see if the yeast can clean up after itself.
 
Onkel_Udo said:
Two things:

Why did you use S04 for this...seems the wrong yeast for the job even though it is one of my favorites?

Primary fermentation is probably over so honestly leave it where it is for a week or to and see if the yeast can clean up after itself.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick reply. I am a bit of a newbie of sorts (5 AG batches), but the original recipe says S04 or wyeast 1968. Should I have used the Wyeast?

I moved it down to my basement which should bring it down. I have an extra pack of S04. Would re-pitching help, hurt or have no effect.

I am starting to think I should just go back to the store and brew a second batch on Monday. Then maybe I can do a side by side taste test later. Should be a good learning experience.
 
rbdono2 said:
Thanks for the quick reply. I am a bit of a newbie of sorts (5 AG batches), but the original recipe says S04 or wyeast 1968. Should I have used the Wyeast?

I moved it down to my basement which should bring it down. I have an extra pack of S04. Would re-pitching help, hurt or have no effect.

I am starting to think I should just go back to the store and brew a second batch on Monday. Then maybe I can do a side by side taste test later. Should be a good learning experience.
Click to expand...

You really do not need to cool it...as mentioned, the bulk of the fermentation is done now it is just yeast cleaning up. Just let it be for a week or two then bottle it. Do not dump it. At the very least bottle a few and let them carbonate...this likely will not be Zombie dust but might be interesting.

No issue with re-brewing. The challenge with S-04 is that it is touchy on high temps. Honestly, I just fermented it at 57 f (started at 62 f when pitched and let the basement do its thing) with S-04 on a mild. It take a while and you do want to warm it to at least the mid 60's after about a week, but it seems pretty cold tolerant.
 
Thanks for the help. I'll be re-brewing on Monday. I'll keep the original batch around and see what happens.

Probably won't dry hop with the 3oz of citra like it calls for. I'll save that for the second batch.
 
rbdono2 said:
I'm an idiot and need some advice. I brewed this one on Thursday and everything went great! Except, my location for my carboy was not thought out very well. I put it in my closet because my basement has been sitting around 55F and I was concerned it would be too cool. However, I didn't realize my dryer vent runs directly under my closet, bringing my carboy to a nice warm 78F. I have read that US04 gives off a tart taste above 68F.

So, do I go to the LHBS for more grain and re-brew, or stick it out and see what happens? Total time at 78F is 36 hours. Almost all activity has subsided.
Click to expand...


I would probably just wait it out an extra week and see what the sample tastes like. If it's extremely Fidel alcohol full and undrinkable then rebrew.
 
skeezerpleezer said:
Batch Size: 6 gallons
Estimated Original Gravity: 1.065
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.018
Estimated Color: 8.5 SRM
Bitterness: 65.9 IBU
Mash Temp: 152 F

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.75 lb 2 Row (2.0 SRM) Grain 81.7 %
1.13 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 7.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 21.1 IBU
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 17.0 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 15.4 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 5-7 days) Hops - (used to say 10, i use 5-7 now)
SafAle English Ale (S-04)
0r
Wyeast 1968


Here is the extract/PM conversion:

Batch Size: 5g
Boil Volume: 3g

6.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 70.6 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (60 min) Hops 25.1 IBU
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 12.5 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 9.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
SafAle English Ale (S-04)
or
Wyeast 1968

This is assuming a 3g boil, so if you can do a full boil remove the extra oz of hops at 60minutes.

Ferment at 65F for 7-10 days

The FWH addition's IBUs are calculated as a 20 minute addition to better calculate the perceived IBUs. They are boiled the whole 60 minutes.

This recipe has had favorable results with both S-04 and WY1968. For more information here is the original thread from the Recipes/Ingredients section: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/3-floyds-zombie-dust-attempt-help-info-requested-245456/
Click to expand...

So I've just done this brew with the following hop schedule;

.75 fWH ( and left for the entire boil)
1oz 60m
1oz 15m
1oz 10m
1oz 5m
1oz 1m

Is this correct, or will it have too much bitterness?

Sorry if this is a silly question - I'm newish to brewing, and I live in australia, I have nothing to compare to sadly!

Thanks for your help!
 
I'm going through and making the extract per the instructions. Quick question while I steep. I have two packs of S04. I'm going to pitch them without making a starter or rehydrating. Is 1 pack fine or should I pitch both? Maybe 1.5 packs?
 
rbdono2 said:
Thanks for the quick reply. I am a bit of a newbie of sorts (5 AG batches), but the original recipe says S04 or wyeast 1968. Should I have used the Wyeast?

I moved it down to my basement which should bring it down. I have an extra pack of S04. Would re-pitching help, hurt or have no effect.

I am starting to think I should just go back to the store and brew a second batch on Monday. Then maybe I can do a side by side taste test later. Should be a good learning experience.
Click to expand...

Never dump a beer, IMO. I had a batch of winter warmer that got away from me tempwise and it definitely had some fusels in there. I let it sit in the primary for 3.5 weeks. Harsh tastes were gone. Time heals, or at least mitigates, nearly all wound except infections. Even If I got an infection, I would pitch some extra bugs on it and let it go. There is just no reason to ever dump a beer.
 
Willizm said:
I'm going through and making the extract per the instructions. Quick question while I steep. I have two packs of S04. I'm going to pitch them without making a starter or rehydrating. Is 1 pack fine or should I pitch both? Maybe 1.5 packs?
Click to expand...

5-gallons? One is fine if properly re-hydrated. If not, do two.

Have you used S-04 before? If not, please make sure control you wort/beer temperature NOT your room temp. This stuff will raise the wort at least 5 f if health fermentation kicks in...8-10 f is not unheard of. When it doubt, at the first bubble in the airlock, shoot for 58 f air temp.
 
Onkel_Udo said:
5-gallons? One is fine if properly re-hydrated. If not, do two.

Have you used S-04 before? If not, please make sure control you wort/beer temperature NOT your room temp. This stuff will raise the wort at least 5 f if health fermentation kicks in...8-10 f is not unheard of. When it doubt, at the first bubble in the airlock, shoot for 58 f air temp.
Click to expand...

The fermenter is reading at 68*. That should be alright, right? I'll keep an eye on it as it ferments. If it's getting up there i'll put it in cooler area of the basement.
 
Willizm said:
The fermenter is reading at 68*. That should be alright, right? I'll keep an eye on it as it ferments. If it's getting up there i'll put it in cooler area of the basement.
Click to expand...

At 68, make the move now. It will take at least a day to make much of a difference anyway.
 
Onkel_Udo said:
At 68, make the move now. It will take at least a day to make much of a difference anyway.
Click to expand...


I made the move last night. It's reading at 62-64* now on the little therm strip on my bucket fermenter. I've got a active fermentation going through a blow off tube into a jug of sanitizer. It's 1 week of fermenting and then I rack it to a carboy with my 3oz of hops for a week, right?
 
Willizm said:
I made the move last night. It's reading at 62-64* now on the little therm strip on my bucket fermenter. I've got a active fermentation going through a blow off tube into a jug of sanitizer. It's 1 week of fermenting and then I rack it to a carboy with my 3oz of hops for a week, right?
Click to expand...

I'm assuming you are a relatively new brewer. Forgive me if I'm wrong. You'll get some brewers who say otherwise, but many of us do not rack to secondary unless there is a really good reason to do so, such as you're racking onto fruit or wood chips, or for long term bulk storage. Transferring your beer introduces opportunities for infection as well as oxidation, especially with beginners. Leaving your beer on the yeast cake for 2-3 weeks presents the yeast with a chance to clean up any off flavors with no material downside that I'm aware of.

I just brewed this recipe on Sat Feb 7. On Feb 14 I started dry hopping half the amount for four days, then I'll take it out and put the other half in for four more days on Wednesday. I'm bottling next Sunday after 15 days total in primary.
 
Here is my first batch of the Zombie dust clone using the extract recipe. OG was at 1.064 fermented one week than went into secondary with the dry hops for one week FG was 1.016 (was off by 2 on both) kegged and carbonated for a week. I took a growler to a party this weekend and got great compliments from all. Thanx to skeezerpleezer for the recipe and comments to me.
Here is a picture of it.

zombie.JPG
 
hopsmakemehappy said:
Here is my first batch of the Zombie dust clone using the extract recipe. OG was at 1.064 fermented one week than went into secondary with the dry hops for one week FG was 1.016 (was off by 2 on both) kegged and carbonated for a week. I took a growler to a party this weekend and got great compliments from all. Thanx to skeezerpleezer for the recipe and comments to me.
Here is a picture of it.
Click to expand...


Glad you liked it, looks like a good brew. Cheers!
 

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