Thinking about going BIAB. Anyone one with regrets? Tips?

CornyKegs 728
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bhefficiency.jpg
 
I never get the “you have to lift the bag” thing. Even with three vessel, don’t you have to lug your mash tun over to the compost?

Lifting the bag (which is at most maybe 50 lbs) never seemed that onerous to me; what I hated, and quickly realized was a bad idea, was lugging eight gallons of boiling wort around.

I’ve done 130 or so batches BIAB — decoction mashes, kettle sours, > 1.110 barleywines — pretty much anything you could do in a 3 vessel setup. I don’t see any downside to the process.
 
ong said:
I never get the “you have to lift the bag” thing. Even with three vessel, don’t you have to lug your mash tun over to the compost?

Lifting the bag (which is at most maybe 50 lbs) never seemed that onerous to me; what I hated, and quickly realized was a bad idea, was lugging eight gallons of boiling wort around.

I’ve done 130 or so batches BIAB — decoction mashes, kettle sours, > 1.110 barleywines — pretty much anything you could do in a 3 vessel setup. I don’t see any downside to the process.
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A 3v system will have more to clean but you can brace a kettle against your body when lifting and they are usually dry and cool. The lift the bag thing typically is a good warning to those not familiar with having to keep a bag of wet hot grains at arms length while hovering over a working kettle.
 
ong said:
I never get the “you have to lift the bag” thing. Even with three vessel, don’t you have to lug your mash tun over to the compost?

Lifting the bag (which is at most maybe 50 lbs) never seemed that onerous to me; what I hated, and quickly realized was a bad idea, was lugging eight gallons of boiling wort around.

I’ve done 130 or so batches BIAB — decoction mashes, kettle sours, > 1.110 barleywines — pretty much anything you could do in a 3 vessel setup. I don’t see any downside to the process.
Click to expand...

My electric kettle (made from a 5 gallon bucket) is in the basement because I can't plug it in in the kitchen, and I brew upstairs. A big part of the evolution of my process comes from that. I can bring 3 gallons of water to a full boil in the utility room without having to watch it too closely. Then carrying 3 gallons of boiling water upstairs seems safer than a full bucket of hot water. I pour the 3 gallons of boiling water in the kettle and add 1 gallon of cold water, and the temperature settles out just right.

The next thing I need to optimize is chilling the wort when I brew in the kitchen instead of out on the deck. Probably just need to get longer hoses for the immersion chiller so I don't have to move the kettle from the stove to the sink...
 
Someone has probably already said this, but skip the disposable paint strainers and start off right with a high-quality, fine mesh reusable bag from @wilserbrewer
It's hard to overstate the improvement this will make in your BIAB experience. Also consider ordering the bag hoist setup he sells, it takes all the physical exertion out of pulling the heavy grain bag from the kettle.
 
SoCal-Doug said:
...If space, skills and/or cash is limited, there is nothing "wrong" with a BIAB setup...
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Regarding space, I have a 60'x80' shop building where I brew, so space is not an issue. Regarding skills, I'm an industrial/mechanical designer well versed in designing/fabricating in most any material. Regarding cash, I'm not rich but I have the money to buy any type of system.

I thoroughly researched all the options and very consciously chose to go with simple single vessel BIAB rig. I have yet to find a reason to regret that decision.

You are correct that there is nothing wrong with BIAB. But your comments make it clear that you have the mistaken belief (as do many brewers) that other systems are somehow inherently "better", or that they would be an "upgrade" from BIAB. That belief is far from true. I would consider unnecessary complexity to be a downgrade from my elegantly simple and effective BIAB rig.

SoCal-Doug said:
...drawbacks for me that come to mind are (1) efficiency (2) repeatability when scaling up or down and (3) lifting the bag out....
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I don't sparge, squeeze, or recirculate and I get low to mid 80's efficiency. If I want more alcohol content I always have the option of sparging, but since I can hit or exceed recipe targets without a sparge I normally just don't bother with it.

I don't buy the claim that repeatability and scalability is a drawback of BIAB. My repeatability is very good. On my last brew my mash temp stayed within 1 degree of target for a full 60 minute mash, using only an old sleeping bag to insulate the kettle. I'm not guessing about the temp, I use a Thermoworks remote probe thermometer so I can see the temp within the kettle without removing the insulation.

Lifting the bag is not an issue. Maybe it is if you are trying to do a stovetop 10gal batch, alone, without an overhead lift point -- but the problem there is poor planning, not the BIAB process.

I have an overhead lift point for hoisting the bag, which I use with a simple ratcheting pulley setup that gives me a 2:1 mechanical advantage. I can easily lift the bag with one hand. The ratcheting pulley removes the risk of it falling back into the kettle.

I let gravity drain the bag over the kettle during the boil. After it's drained it is light and easy to handle. I grab the top of the bag, the part that is not wet and sticky, release the ratchet pulley, and drop the bag into a bucket for disposal.

My brew days are hassle free and enjoyable. My total brew time averages about 3:45. That includes everything, from beginning to fill the kettle to everything cleaned and put away. That includes no prior preparation, everything is done on brew day, and I do a full hour mash and a full hour boil.

The brewing is fun. The beer tastes great. The chances of me having a stuck sparge, controller problem, pump issue, etc, is zero. I have no desire to downgrade to a more complicated system.
 
Well said, little river! I'm with ya!
I love seeing people's insane 3V brew rooms with pipes, rims/herms/, huge panels, etc but i have no desire to own or brew on that myself.
I think i went 3 vessel at first because of the idea that BIAB somehow isn't real all grain brewing. I see now how wrong I was.
It should just be called full volume mash brewing or something to remove the stigma.
I have no idea why anyone would wanna mess with coolers, flames, or a mess of hoses.
Cheers
 
NewJersey said:
Well said, little river! I'm with ya!
I love seeing people's insane 3V brew rooms with pipes, rims/herms/, huge panels, etc but i have no desire to own or brew on that myself.
I think i went 3 vessel at first because of the idea that BIAB somehow isn't real all grain brewing. I see now how wrong I was.
It should just be called full volume mash brewing or something to remove the stigma.
I have no idea why anyone would wanna mess with coolers, flames, or a mess of hoses.
Cheers
Click to expand...

Some people just like messing with that stuff. More power to 'em. :mug: I enjoy seeing what they come up with (as I think you do) If I were doing larger batches than 4 or 5 gallons, I would probably go to some kind of 3V system because I don't have the hoists and stuff to deal with large heavy grain bags. But I can handle 10 pounds of grain just fine with what I have, and there's a lot you can do with 8 to 10 pounds of grain. :) Most of my recipes are right at 8 pounds.
 
Messing with the corona mill. How does this crush look? Can you go too fine?
20181101_133959.jpg
 
LittleRiver said:
You are correct that there is nothing wrong with BIAB. But your comments make it clear that you have the mistaken belief (as do many brewers) that other systems are somehow inherently "better", or that they would be an "upgrade" from BIAB. That belief is far from true. I would consider unnecessary complexity to be a downgrade from my elegantly simple and effective BIAB rig.
Click to expand...

I went on a little journey of learning that lead me from stovetop extract, to BIAB, and then on to 3 vessel brewing. Mind you, I am one of those people who finds the tinkering and engineering to be a big draw to the brewing process.

After getting to indoor brewing with 3 vessels, a RIMS tube, CraftBeerPi controller, and a pump, I do think I would have been smarter to stick with BIAB.

I'm not going back any time soon. I have all the equipment, and my indoor spot is less conducive to lifting the bag. Most of all I think I still have a lot to learn with my current setup. I can definitely see that some day I could get fed up with the complexity and go back to BIAB.
 
wilserbrewer said:
That looks good, I think mine is a lil bit coarser, but that will certainly work.
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Cool. Thanks. I think I'm just going to build an IPA recipe assuming 80% efficiency targeting 1.055 so if it goes either way I'll be okay with it.
 
@GoeHaarden - your crush looks like mine. I wish I could get finer when I do wheat (smaller grain) because my overall (final, brew house) eff goes down when I brew a recipe with 30-50% wheat.

Regarding repeatability discussion: when I brew the same recipe (grains, hops), and don't screw up the brewday process, yeast starter build, ferment temp schedule, I get the same beer within my ability to determine "sameness".
 
GoeHaarden said:
Messing with the corona mill. How does this crush look? Can you go too fine?
View attachment 595684
Click to expand...

That should work just fine. You will get some flour in your wort but don't worry about it, that settles out in the fermenter. My grind is a little courser than yours but still has some flour, and I hit or exceed my OG numbers for beers up to about 1.060 if I plug 75% in the recipe calculator. My efficiency drops off rapidly when I go above 1.070 but I think I could get most of it back with practice.
 
balrog said:
@GoeHaarden - your crush looks like mine. I wish I could get finer when I do wheat (smaller grain) because my overall (final, brew house) eff goes down when I brew a recipe with 30-50% wheat.
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Well that's easy! I actually hate wheats and the alike...
 
z-bob said:
That should work just fine. You will get some flour in your wort but don't worry about it, that settles out in the fermenter. My grind is a little courser than yours but still has some flour...
Click to expand...

Which leads me to my next question...

How many of you just dump the whole kettle into the fermentor?

I usually whirlpool to make a decent hop/break cone in the kettle, losing probably around a quart. I think I may just dump the whole thing into the fermentor to further minimize loss and see if it even matters. Again, my quest to eliminate homebrew misconceptions in my process...
 
I filter out the hops (put them in a hop sock when I add them, which I squeeze out later) and dump everything else in the fermenter.

Last time instead of doing that I added the hops directly to the kettle, then poured the wort thru a paint strainer bag to remove the hops and some of the break material. Don't know yet if that worked better but I think it might. Either way, I don't leave any wort behind. I like the whirlpool cone idea but can never get it to work with my kettle so I gave up on it.
 
GoeHaarden said:
Which leads me to my next question...

How many of you just dump the whole kettle into the fermentor?

I usually whirlpool to make a decent hop/break cone in the kettle, losing probably around a quart. I think I may just dump the whole thing into the fermentor to further minimize loss and see if it even matters. Again, my quest to eliminate homebrew misconceptions in my process...
Click to expand...

My guess is that you will be perplexed at the amount of break material or proteins that result with BIAB

Eliminating them will be futile unless you want to scrap 1/3 to half the kettle, so fermenting the whole kettle and letting gravity and time sort it out is the easiest solution.

Another option is to let the wort settle for an extended period, say 12 hours post boil and then draining...but that’s an extra step for questionable benefit.

Did I mention more break w/ BIAB?
Rdwhahb
 
GoeHaarden said:
Which leads me to my next question...

How many of you just dump the whole kettle into the fermentor?

I usually whirlpool to make a decent hop/break cone in the kettle, losing probably around a quart. I think I may just dump the whole thing into the fermentor to further minimize loss and see if it even matters. Again, my quest to eliminate homebrew misconceptions in my process...
Click to expand...

I'm primarily a dumper but when I get to the last of the wort that turns out to be just green glop I may stop pouring. At that point I may have a cup of green glop that doesn't make it to the fermenter. I don't feel that I'm losing much potential beer that way and I know that no matter if it does get to the fermenter it will settle out.
 
GoeHaarden said:
Which leads me to my next question...

How many of you just dump the whole kettle into the fermentor?

...
Click to expand...

I don’t dump the whole kettle into the fermenter, I eliminate a step and pitch yeast directly into my stainless kettle onto chilled and aerated wort.

Then seal the kettle and ferment...

So yes, I ferment the entire kettle contents...

Very easy, one less vessel to clean and sanitize...
 
wilserbrewer said:
I don’t dump the whole kettle into the fermenter, I eliminate a step and pitch yeast directly into my stainless kettle onto chilled and aerated wort.
Click to expand...

Defines one pot brewing. Is it a DIY kind of sealing of the kettle or do you have one designed for it?

This is going to be the easiest brew day. Lol.
 
Sometimes I will transfer all but the last gallon or so, but then move that into sanitized jars and cold crash them for a day until I can pour clear wort off the break.
 
My only regret is that it was not around when I first started. All that extra gear and effort luckily I traded some of my gear for grain, so a win for me.
 
I'm currently heavily modifying my system to allow for direct fired mash so that I can do step mashed.

BIAB takes a little more creativity to get the same level of mash control you can get out of a 3 vessel system, but it can certainly be done.
 
GoeHaarden said:
Defines one pot brewing. Is it a DIY kind of sealing of the kettle or do you have one designed for it?

This is going to be the easiest brew day. Lol.
Click to expand...

No special design, just a stainless pot with a lid that fits well. I also drape a sheet of plastic, a large plastic bag cut to a sheet, over the kettle, then wrap a piece of string around the kettle to seal. During fermentation the plastic will blow up and stretch tight as the fermenting beer is blowing off. Once fermentation is complete I transfer tor a keg. I only leave it in the kettle for 7-10 days, once the beer is still you want to move it along to a more well sealed vessel. During active fermentation, the sealed kettle is adequate ime
 
Okay everyone...I think I'm officially a BIAB'er!! I'm about 15 minutes into the boil of my 1st BIAB batch and I hit all my pre-boil numbers (gravity/volumes). I'm quite chuffed! I can't believe it really, I mean dead on everything!!!

Wanted to see the results of my process without complicating it. Did full volume/no squeeze/no sparge mash with gravity draining (still dripping). Wrapped the kettle in a thick sleeping bag during the mash. Mashed for 45 minutes, temp dropped from 152.6 to 150.9 in that time. Which I think is pretty awesome since it's about 38F in my garage, and I stirred at every 15 minute interval. I'll take it!

And OMG, the Corona mill is a beast!! Lol. I used my drill, but I have to say to those of you who hand crank = BEAST MODE!

So thanks to everyone for all your tips and suggestions! It really helped me get organized today and I know brew day wouldn't be going so smoothly if it wasn't for you all. So thanks!!!
 
GoeHaarden said:
...I think I'm officially a BIAB'er!! ... hit all my pre-boil numbers.... full volume/no squeeze/no sparge mash with gravity draining...
Click to expand...

Well done! It's an enjoyable no hassle brew day isn't it? The results speak for themselves.

...I stirred at every 15 minute interval....
Click to expand...

If you want to simplify some more, and keep your mash temp even more stable, try a batch without stirring during the mash. That's what I do, and I still hit or exceed my targets.
 
LittleRiver said:
Well done! It's an enjoyable no hassle brew day isn't it? The results speak for themselves...If you want to simplify some more, and keep your mash temp even more stable, try a batch without stirring during the mash. That's what I do, and I still hit or exceed my targets.
Click to expand...


Yeah, no kidding! I don't know why I did it any other way! I guess the true test will be the end result, but brewday is sooo much easier. I'm going to try it without stirring next time, I think it was just habit lol.

Currently chilling the batch, it got down to 70F pretty quick. The plus side to colder weather I suppose. So, I'm 2.5hrs in total from heating strike water to now. Incredible! Shaving some time for sure as well!
 
As Wilser described earlier in this thread, you're going to see a lot of break material going into the fermenter. Don't fret about it. For clear beer don't rush your fermentation so gravity has time to do its work, and do a cold crash at the end.
 
LittleRiver said:
As Wilser described earlier in this thread, you're going to see a lot of break material going into the fermenter. Don't fret about it. For clear beer don't rush your fermentation so gravity has time to do its work, and do a cold crash at the end.
Click to expand...

I can kind of already see it. In the ferm chamber and the break material is almost to the gallon mark already. I'm not too worried about it though. I don't always cold crash, but I think I'll follow you advice on this one.

wilserbrewer said:
Just to be clear, you still stir well at the very beginning of the mash, and also stir well at the end of the mash before removing the bag.

Seems pretty obvious, but we’ve had some...
Click to expand...

Lol. Correct, I stir like hell when doughing in and at the end. The 15 minute interval stir was just for bonus ;)
 
GoeHaarden said:
Been brewing all-grain for about 5 years now and I'm at the point where I'd like to simplify my brewday without sacrificing quality. BIAB seems like the logical choice, but I've always been a little skeptical of the process.

I only do 5.5 gallon batches, and I don't foresee myself ever wanting to do 10 gallon batches. I would still like to do some 1.100 beers every once in a while so I was thinking of buying a 15 gallon spikes kettle and a mesh basket from arborfab. Direct fire with propane to hit strike temp and boil, but use my 2000w/110v RIMS to maintain mash. Yeah, I know I've read that recirc/RIMS with BIAB is unnecessary but since I have it I figured why not use it...

Just curious if anyone regrets going BIAB? Or if anyone has any tips or hindsight with their setup? Or any suggestions to my above proposed setup?
Click to expand...
IMG_20180520_181400.jpgIMG_20180311_163342.jpg 2v ,ebiab,15 gallon,,10 gallon batches , 50l kegmenter, 3.5 -4 hr brew days,,the bag just makes it easier to clean,,,24 lb grain bills,,oh yeah I like it,,,"Stay strong and brew on"
 
Just to come back on the whole kettle into fermenter thing...
My immersion chiller is meh but gets me to circa 30°C quickly enough so I pour the wort into the fermenter and leave to cool to pitching temps. Then I pour the dregs into a jug and let sit on the freezing balcony (wohoo winter!). After an hour or so a liter of wort has floated to the top which is more than enough for a vitality starter. After 4-8 hours starter is vital and wort is at pitching temp. No need for DME, effeciency numbers up due to lack of wastage, costs down.

And on the main subject to any new brewers - KISS KISS KISS!!!
 
BandonBrewingCo said:
Then I pour the dregs into a jug and let sit on the freezing balcony (wohoo winter!). After an hour or so a liter of wort has floated to the top which is more than enough for a vitality starter. After 4-8 hours starter is vital and wort is at pitching temp. No need for DME, effeciency numbers up due to lack of wastage, costs down.
Click to expand...

That is a great idea. I might try that. I usually collect the remaining break material in a measuring cup and wait for it to settle out, and use the wort for my hydrometer check. But I still end up wasting it...hmmm!
 

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