That Tootsie roll taste in sour beers?

[Arrheinous]

Not sure if this just me but: you ever have a good oud bruin or sour brown or maybe some old red wine? They usually have what I call a 'Tootsie roll' note. Kind of like chocolate but more of a fake chocolate flavor.

Does anyone know where this is coming from? I'd have to guess it's oxidized tannins. Maybe this is the same as the 'sherry notes' some people talk about. I haven't had sherry.

 

[OogieWaWa]

The answer may be in a trivia question I've been asking folks for years; what flavors are in a Tootsie Pop?

Chocolate and ORANGE! Most folks find it hard to believe, but then stop and think for a minute, and it's "By golly, you're right!"

My guess: So, chocolate type malts for the darker colors and chocolate flavor, and the acidity and aromatics of citrus from the ingredients, the yeasts used in those styles, and in particular for beer, the hops. Orange is the deeper, fuller sweetness (= more "orangy") of the citrus fruits, with a subtle bitterness, and would be a reflection of what the grain or residual darker, less fermentable sugars bring, the heavier ones, to the taste.

Does that make sense? Is that what you are tasting? Or am I out in left field?

Edit; for the old red wine, I have no clue, sorry.

 

[Arrheinous]

The orange would make sense if I knew it was there. I guess I learned something. From looking more online there's things like grape juice concentrate as well. And actual cocoa which I thought was just artificial chocolate flavor.

The red wine was a Merlot that'd been opened for a while. That could mean that what I'm picking up is more about the acid/acetic. The tannins in wine provide a sort of bitterness that might be like the acrid part of a deeply roasted malt.