Techniques on chilling wort

[idigg]

I consider myself a beginner, and I have only used ice baths in my utility sink to chill wort. I have 2 extract batches, and 2 all grain batches under my belt.

I don't yet have a wort chiller because I am having a hard time thinking to myself what a waste of water it could be if it takes 20-25min to chill the wort with a chiller

I was going to make my own wort chiller out of 50ft 1/4" copper, and it would be cheap to make, but the ice bath works well to get wort to 78*F in 35min or so.

Any thoughts on any alternatives or should I go with a wort chiller and maybe a thicker copper?

TIA,
Justin

 

[Kaz]

The immersion chillers do go through a bunch of water. I just replaced the outflow hose on mine and put a garden hose coupling on it. Now, I can try to water the garden or the lawn while I'm chilling...also, I keep about the first 5 gallons of really warm water to use for cleaning out the brew kettle and all the utensils. There are ways to increase the efficiency of the chiller to cut down on water usage...whirlpooling, recirculating, plate chilling etc...I haven't explored any of those yet.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

You can still use your ice bath in the utility sink AND use teh chiller... Just buy a cheapo sump pump from Harbor Frieght and pump the ice water up through the copper coil and let the hot run back into the sink. Just keep adding ice to get it cold again. You'll have the ice bath AND the chiller doing double duty.

I have cold well water, so I worry about it a bit less than you do. I just use cold water to get it from 212 to ~120, then I add more cold water and ice to crank through the bottom end of the chilling phase.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

The immersion chillers do go through a bunch of water. I just replaced the outflow hose on mine and put a garden hose coupling on it. Now, I can try to water the garden or the lawn while I'm chilling...also, I keep about the first 5 gallons of really warm water to use for cleaning out the brew kettle and all the utensils. There are ways to increase the efficiency of the chiller to cut down on water usage...whirlpooling, recirculating, plate chilling etc...I haven't explored any of those yet.

+1 about keeping the hot water from the first bit. I do the same thing.

 

[Russtang]

You can still use your ice bath in the utility sink AND use teh chiller... Just buy a cheapo sump pump from Harbor Frieght and pump the ice water up through the copper coil and let the hot run back into the sink. Just keep adding ice to get it cold again. You'll have the ice bath AND the chiller doing double duty.

+1 This is the plan for my next batch!

 

[Golddiggie]

If water is really expensive where you are, then just use the pump and ice addition method to recirculate the same water... Fill a 5+ gallon bucket with ice, and a gallon (or more) of water and use that for the source to run through the IC.

BTW, don't go with 1/4" OD tubing... It will take a lot longer to chill the wort than using 3/8" OD tubing. I can chill down my post-boil 5 gallon batch of wort (about 5-1/4 gallons) to about 60F in under 10 minutes with my 50 foot, 3/8" OD IC... I didn't start the stopwatch when I used it the first time, but I plan to the next time. This is using regular water from the hose faucet. I know the water is cooler now than it will be during the summer time, but I don't expect summer water temps to make a huge impact in my chilling time. Of course, I might upgrade my IC process, later, to include a whirlpool setup and possibly the ice water source for the IC itself...

BTW, we use the water coming out of the IC to do initial hardware rinses. Such as my mash tun cooler, and anything else that might need to be rinsed out before getting washed. So, either capture, or simply use the warm/hot water coming out of the IC for something else...

 

[kpr121]

The way I've found to conserve ice and water is to use tap water through IC until the wort is at 100-120. During this time I run my IC outlet into buckets and MLT for cleaning. Any extra either goes in the yard, garden, pond, or pool (Whatever needs it the most). Then switch over to pump and ice water. Recirculate this and add more ice as necessary. That water either goes in my swamp cooler, or throw it in the washing machine.

You really should only need to waste a 5 gallon bucket or two, especially if you have a garden or other feature that could use it. In the winter its a little more waste (unless you need to build a skating rink) but that is offset by cooler tap water which takes less time to get to 120.

Edit: I noticed that us posters so far have all been north of Virginia. We still get cold winters. Florida may not rely on the same techniques.
Edit Edit: Russtang beat me, from balmy arizona!

 

[ThePearsonFam]

If you REALLY want to save water, take some of the final water from your ice bath and save it for re-freezing. Some people make ice blocks from milk jugs. Just use 1/2 gallon jugs and cut the top off just below the handle. Fill with water and put it in the freezer (careful not to spill) and leave it there until brew day. Float the whole thing, just and all int eh ice bath until it melts enough to get the jug free. Save the jug for re-use. Good thing is that you don't have to worry about sanitization since it never touches the beer.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

The way I've found to conserve ice and water is to use tap water through IC until the wort is at 100-120. During this time I run my IC outlet into buckets and MLT for cleaning. Any extra either goes in the yard, garden, pond, or pool (Whatever needs it the most). Then switch over to pump and ice water. Recirculate this and add more ice as necessary. That water either goes in my swamp cooler, or throw it in the washing machine.

You really should only need to waste a 5 gallon bucket or two, especially if you have a garden or other feature that could use it. In the winter its a little more waste (unless you need to build a skating rink) but that is offset by cooler tap water which takes less time to get to 120.

Edit: I noticed that us posters so far have all been north of Virginia. We still get cold winters. Florida may not rely on the same techniques.
Edit Edit: Russtang beat me, from balmy arizona!

I had pretty good luck when I lived in Jacksonville, FL, too. City water was still ~ 55F-60F in the summer. I just did a great job down to ~120, then had to kick into the ice water.

 

[kpr121]

Or you can just skip a shower on the days you brew. You dont want to scrub that malty hoppy goodness off you skin anyhow. An average 5-7 minute shower uses about 10 gallons of water.

 

[Golddiggie]

Or you can just skip a shower on the days you brew. You dont want to scrub that malty hoppy goodness off you skin anyhow. An average 5-7 minute shower uses about 10 gallons of water.

Could give new meaning to "skunky brew" though...

I've been brewing at night lately, so I just shower the next day... Of course, since I brew at another person's house, I'm not about to go over there stinking... City/town water temps where I'm at are great for cooling via IC's... When I eventually setup my brew cave/shed, I'll adjust my chilling method to whatever makes most sense. I'll probably have a water feed going there, that will have a good filter system on it for the brew water.

 

[ThePearsonFam]

Just make sure you shower on brew day because momma will want you clean and drunk to take advantage of you...

 

[Deltac]

I consider myself a beginner, and I have only used ice baths in my utility sink to chill wort. I have 2 extract batches, and 2 all grain batches under my belt.

I don't yet have a wort chiller because I am having a hard time thinking to myself what a waste of water it could be if it takes 20-25min to chill the wort with a chiller

I was going to make my own wort chiller out of 50ft 1/4" copper, and it would be cheap to make, but the ice bath works well to get wort to 78*F in 35min or so.

Any thoughts on any alternatives or should I go with a wort chiller and maybe a thicker copper?

TIA,
Justin

I use 25 Ft of 3/8 Copper tubing attached to a small DC water pump.
I use a bucket of Ice water to cool my wort. I only use about a gallon of water in total. I prepare my ice weeks ahead in time.

Deltac

 

[Shaneoco1981]

I built my own counter flow chiller and I have an immersion chiller to cool the water before it hits the counter flow chiller. Where I am (Detroit area), the water is pretty cheap... I just water my lawn with it while I am cooling my wort.

 

[Russtang]

+1 This is the plan for my next batch!

Made this wort chiller last night. Turned out pretty good. I used stripped romex 14awg to make it rigid and space the coils out a bit. A $6 tubing bender made very nice bends. I used 20' of tubing since I have plans of circulating ice water through it.

Here's a quick pic of my chiller and pump setup. I'm using a 12v Harbor Freight pump with garden hose connections. Using a 12v pump cause I already had it for my EZ-UP mister system. I hooked it up to my car battery charger this morning and no leaks! Flow is very powerful at 12v, but seems to be just about right at 6v.

 

[idigg]

Okay guys I built my own immersion chiller from 50 feet of 3/8 copper, swivel hose barb to hook up to my utility sink. Works great no leaks. New questions...

1. How do I clean this for first use? Oxyclean soak okay?
2. How do I get water out of chiller after use or do I just leave it be?

I am a noob!
Justin

 

[Golddiggie]

Okay guys I built my own immersion chiller from 50 feet of 3/8 copper, swivel hose barb to hook up to my utility sink. Works great no leaks. New questions...

1. How do I clean this for first use? Oxyclean soak okay?

NO... A simple rinse is all you should need to clean the IC post use. Oxyclean and PBW shouldn't be used, or needed, for copper parts. Just like you wouldn't use those cleaners on aluminum.

2. How do I get water out of chiller after use or do I just leave it be?

I am a noob!
Justin

To drain my IC, simply hold the chiller as high as you can, inverted so that most of the water can drain out. I then blow into the water out line to get as much of the water out from inside as possible. IF you have an air compressor, you could try blowing more air through the IC to get more water out.

 

[o4_srt]

NO... A simple rinse is all you should need to clean the IC post use. Oxyclean and PBW shouldn't be used, or needed, for copper parts. Just like you wouldn't use those cleaners on aluminum.

To drain my IC, simply hold the chiller as high as you can, inverted so that most of the water can drain out. I then blow into the water out line to get as much of the water out from inside as possible. IF you have an air compressor, you could try blowing more air through the IC to get more water out.

Why not use pbw or star San on copper? Palmer specifically mentions it for use on copper and aluminum, and he is a metallurgist. I would think he knows better than most.

I haven't had a problem using both on copper and aluminum.

It is noted, however, to not leave star San in contact with copper for more than an hour.

http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB.html

 

[Golddiggie]

Why not use pbw or star San on copper? Palmer specifically mentions it for use on copper and aluminum, and he is a metallurgist. I would think he knows better than most.

I haven't had a problem using both on copper and aluminum.

It is noted, however, to not leave star San in contact with copper for more than an hour.

http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB.html

For one thing, going to that extreme with an IC is completely unnecessary, unless you're wort is F-ing nasty. Simply rinse it off once the wort is cooled and you're done.

You also have zero need to sanitize the IC since it's placed into the boiling wort before it's used. THAT will sanitize it in virtually no time at all. A few seconds at boiling temps is plenty to sanitize something. IF you feel the need to sterilize the IC, then place it into the hot wort 10-15 minutes before flame off.

You won't find me using either StarSan or PBW/oxyclean on my aluminum kettle...

BTW, you only need to sanitize things that will come into contact with the wort POST boil...

If YOU want to go through those (IMO) extreme steps with your copper and aluminum hardware, go right ahead. It's another case of making more work for yourself when it's unnecessary.

BTW, there are postings reporting pitting in aluminum after contact with either oxyclean/PBW or [I think] StarSan... IMO, and experience, using any of those is unnecessary with a seasoned aluminum pot. IF you 'need' to use PBW/oxyclean to get your aluminum pot, you're doing something wonky... I've simply rinsed mine off on brew night, and gone back and cleaned it 2-3 days later and not had any trouble. Maybe I just have a better oxide layer on my kettle.

 

[o4_srt]

For one thing, going to that extreme with an IC is completely unnecessary, unless you're wort is F-ing nasty. Simply rinse it off once the wort is cooled and you're done.

You also have zero need to sanitize the IC since it's placed into the boiling wort before it's used. THAT will sanitize it in virtually no time at all. A few seconds at boiling temps is plenty to sanitize something. IF you feel the need to sterilize the IC, then place it into the hot wort 10-15 minutes before flame off.

You won't find me using either StarSan or PBW/oxyclean on my aluminum kettle...

BTW, you only need to sanitize things that will come into contact with the wort POST boil...

If YOU want to go through those (IMO) extreme steps with your copper and aluminum hardware, go right ahead. It's another case of making more work for yourself when it's unnecessary.

BTW, there are postings reporting pitting in aluminum after contact with either oxyclean/PBW or StarSan... IMO, and experience, using any of those is unnecessary with a seasoned aluminum pot. IF you 'need' to use PBW/oxyclean to get your aluminum pot, you're doing something wonky... I've simply rinsed mine off on brew night, and gone back and cleaned it 2-3 days later and not had any trouble. Maybe I just have a better oxide layer on my kettle.

I only use both because I have a rigid copper plumbed stand and cfc. I recirculate pbw for 10 minutes post brewing, then a 10 min star San recirculate, then hot water rinse followed by a good air compressoring. I am just paranoid that stuff will start growing in my lines. As long as the contact is limited with both the cleaner and sanitizer, I haven't had a problem.

You're right, they are both unnecessary for an IC.

 

[Golddiggie]

I only use both because I have a rigid copper plumbed stand and cfc. I recirculate pbw for 10 minutes post brewing, then a 10 min star San recirculate, then hot water rinse followed by a good air compressoring. I am just paranoid that stuff will start growing in my lines. As long as the contact is limited with both the cleaner and sanitizer, I haven't had a problem.

You're right, they are both unnecessary for an IC.

For a CFC, different cleaning methods apply... Just as with a plate chiller, when compared with an IC. IMO/IME, the IC is the easiest to clean and use.

As you just stated, you need to rinse really well after using the chemicals to clean and sanitize the chiller. I bet you run StarSan through the CFC right before using it... I probably would.

I'm looking forward to the day when I have an IC setup like this one... That will be once I figure out a way to bend the IC better than the last one I made. Or, get someone to help me with that part.

 

[Wyrmwood]

If you continue to do extract batches, and you do partial boils, you really don't need to use your wort chiller for those. I used a borrowed wort chiller for my first batch and it took far longer than what I do now.

After the boil is finished, I put the kettle in the sink with cool water (I don't even bother with ice anymore), then I add about 2 gallons or so of cold water to the wort in my kettle, checking the temp, then when it is < 130 or so, I add the wort to my bucket or carboy and finish topping up. It is normally <100 before I even finish hydrating yeast and certainly before I finish cleaning! Maybe 10-15 minutes tops.

 

[o4_srt]

For a CFC, different cleaning methods apply... Just as with a plate chiller, when compared with an IC. IMO/IME, the IC is the easiest to clean and use.

As you just stated, you need to rinse really well after using the chemicals to clean and sanitize the chiller. I bet you run StarSan through the CFC right before using it... I probably would.

I'm looking forward to the day when I have an IC setup like this one... That will be once I figure out a way to bend the IC better than the last one I made. Or, get someone to help me with that part.

I rinse the system out with water prior to brewing, then recirculate hot wort to sanitize the cfc.

 

[Shaneoco1981]

I actually keep my CFC with sanitizer in it. I have a 2 gall cooler with a barbed valve on the bottom that I am able to run sanitizer through anything contained and through lines. It's a pretty good system.

 

[McGreen]

This is personal, but the cold bath in the sink and waiting 20 or 30 mins is TOTALLY worth saving the money on NOT buying or making a wort chiller.

 

[o4_srt]

This is personal, but the cold bath in the sink and waiting 20 or 30 mins is TOTALLY worth saving the money on NOT buying or making a wort chiller.

Do what works for you! I'm a gadget/process guru, I get off on building stuff (figuratively). Any way I can improve my process, I try to incorporate.

With my cfc, beer goes in one end boiling, and exits the other as low as 50 if I so choose, in a matter of 5 minutes.

 

[idigg]

04 srt - Neon SRT-4? I had a Silver 2004 SRT-4 until last year, had to sell it I miss her so much, such a fun car.

Okay guys, I built my immersion chiller out of 3/8" OD copper. I used a paint can to coil it, hopefully it isn't to narrow. My kettle is taller than wide, so it should be okay. No leaks so I am pretty satisfied. I used some copper wire from some romex to bring the inlet and outlet closer to make it more sturdy, but I am concerned that the inlet and outlet copper are really close, almost touching. Is that going to affect my inlet temperature at all?

Thanks!
justin

 

[idigg]

Here she is

 

[o4_srt]

04 srt - Neon SRT-4? I had a Silver 2004 SRT-4 until last year, had to sell it I miss her so much, such a fun car.

Okay guys, I built my immersion chiller out of 3/8" OD copper. I used a paint can to coil it, hopefully it isn't to narrow. My kettle is taller than wide, so it should be okay. No leaks so I am pretty satisfied. I used some copper wire from some romex to bring the inlet and outlet closer to make it more sturdy, but I am concerned that the inlet and outlet copper are really close, almost touching. Is that going to affect my inlet temperature at all?

Thanks!
justin

Yep, 2004 black. Bought it in dec of 2003, still running strong at 101000 miles

 

[Shaneoco1981]

I like my 2007 Mini Cooper S better then any Neon on the road... WAY faster too... ;-)

 

[o4_srt]

I like my 2007 Mini Cooper S better then any Neon on the road... WAY faster too... ;-)

Faster stock? Srsly? Stock Cooper s should be arouf 6.8 0-60 an 14.9 1/4, as opposed to the neons 5.8 0-60 and 14.1 1/4.

 

[idigg]

Yeah, mini cooper is definitely not WAY faster, WAY slower is correct.

 

[Golddiggie]

Here she is

Very nice job... My latest IC build is down-right ugly compared with that... It does a good job, and fits in the wort, but it won't be winning any beauty contests... I'm thinking of going to a shop to get some help with mine. It was just really difficult to bend the copper on mine, since I think it was thicker wall than my other one.

 

[beerkrump]

I use one of these.

Cools 5 gallons from 212° to 68° in about ten minutes. I put it in an ice bath and run cold tap water through one side. I just siphon the wort though the other side.

I save the water for cleaning and watering. To clean the heat exchanger, I just run hot tap water through the wort side, in the opposite direction, for a minute. If it gets really dirty, I boil it.

 

[Russtang]

I like my 2007 Mini Cooper S better then any Neon on the road... WAY faster too... ;-)

Faster stock? Srsly? Stock Cooper s should be arouf 6.8 0-60 an 14.9 1/4, as opposed to the neons 5.8 0-60 and 14.1 1/4.

Since we're a little

My slower ride turns high 12's in the 1/4. My daily driver is WAY faster (in the high 11's).

I like my commute.

 

[idigg]

What kind of MPG do you get in that russtang though???

 

[Homercidal]

Wow, an argument between a Neon and a Cooper... Check please.

FWIW I am seriously thinking about switching from my CFC to an IC. Just easier to deal with and I am not sweating the couple of minutes difference in cooling time.

 

[o4_srt]

Wow, an argument between a Neon and a Cooper... Check please.

FWIW I am seriously thinking about switching from my CFC to an IC. Just easier to deal with and I am not sweating the couple of minutes difference in cooling time.

Lol no arguments, just some hood natured fun. I outgrew the "my car is better than yours" mentality years ago.

An IC is definitely easier to clean, I just don't like the hassle of lifting it into the kettle. Flipping ball valves is a whole lot easier.

 

[Russtang]

What kind of MPG do you get in that russtang though???

It's a cobra, not a prius! 13-20 mpg, depending on how heavy my right foot feels. They weren't making hybrid mustangs when I bought it...hehe.

Decided to ride the slower one today. It gets 45-50mpg depending on how hard I twist my wrist. Despite the great mileage, it's still a lot of fun to ride.

 

[drkaeppel]

I saw a video of a guy who hated the idea of wasting water with his immersion chiller, so he hooked up a lawn sprinkler to water his lawn as he chilled his beer! Two birds with one stone. I will post the video if I can find it again.