Suggestions for a stuck ferment...

[r8rphan]

So, my SG has not changed in over a week.. It's been in the fermenter 2 weeks... It's a ten gallon IPA, that was was pitched with 2 packets of Safele S-05.. sprinkled on top right from the package... Before I pitched the yeast, I put it on my brew table to warm to ambient temp, but when I went to grab it, the sun had moved and was on them, and they felt a little warm.. So I might have overheated a lot of the yeast in the sun.. I dunno what else to blame.. Two packets should have been plenty for this beer, shouldn't it?....

Refractometer says 1.045... OG was 1.065.. So using a calculator, the adjusted SG is 1.030.... I measured it using a hydrometer last Wednesday and it confirmed the 1.030.... 1.016 was the target FG... (currently at 4.86% ABV of targeted 6.6%)

Just took another sample and the current gravity is still 1.045 on the refractometer...

Sample tastes alright.. previously overpowering hops are mellowing out, but still sweet.. I think it would be a good beer if I can just get the thing to finish ferment..

Any ideas? I have 3 old packets of S-05 (a year and a half past expiration but has been in the fridge the whole time), and 2 fresh packets of S04... I also found an unopened 5 gram, years old package of "LALVIN" Saccharomyces Cerevisiae in the bar fridge with the old yeast... I have never used the stuff before, so I know nothing about shelf life or use...

I pitched and fermented at 68 degrees, but last Saturday raised the temp up about 4 degrees over 2 days, and left it there since, hoping to get it going again.... I aerated with a stone and air pump right in the keggle for about 10 minutes or more once the wort temp dropped below 120 degrees and left it in there for a few minutes after it reached pitching temp (turning off the cooling water and just recirculating through the CFC)

I was hoping to be transferring to kegs today, but I gotta fix this first, if possible.....

Any ideas?

 

[Ogri]

Sounds like it tastes as though another bash at fermenting is the right course of action.

As for the year and a half past sell by date US 05, I just used a packet,
that I've had in the fridge for maybe close to three years, on a 5 gallon batch of OG 1.062 and ended up with an FG of 1.014. I did rehydrate it prior to pitching, though.

 

[r8rphan]

Sounds like it tastes as though another bash at fermenting is the right course of action.

As for the year and a half past sell by date US 05, I just used a packet,
that I've had in the fridge for maybe close to three years, on a 5 gallon batch of OG 1.062 and ended up with an FG of 1.014. I did rehydrate it prior to pitching, though.

Cool!

Is there any 'downside' to using old yeast? Or is the worst case scenario, it just won't work?

Do you think one packet would be enough, or should I pitch 2 packets as if I were starting from scratch?

and I'll be rehydrating dry yeast from here out.... and paying much more attention to not letting it get heated up in the sun or the car or whatever....

 

[Ogri]

Cool!

Is there any 'downside' to using old yeast? Or is the worst case scenario, it just won't work?

To be completely honest I'm not absolutely sure. I just assumed that dry yeast keeps a high percentage of its viability if stored at fridge temps so it would perform as expected.

Do you think one packet would be enough, or should I pitch 2 packets as if I were starting from scratch?

Again, Just my opinion, which isn't a knowledgable or well informed one, but I'd have thought, that since your SG has already gone from the OG of 1.065 down to 1.030, a single pack of yeast should be sufficient for the task, if there is indeed any possibility of restarting fermentation and getting closer to your target FG.

and I'll be rehydrating dry yeast from here out.... and paying much more attention to not letting it get heated up in the sun or the car or whatever....

Always had great results from rehydrating dry yeasts. Pitch into a sterilised beaker of, boiled and cooled to 40 degrees centigrade, water and let it cool down to target pitching temp. Ideally pitching within 30 minutes of rehydration.

 

[day_trippr]

From Fermentis US-05 tech sheet:

"Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry
yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C ± 3C (80F ± 6F). Once the
expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to
30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream
into the fermentation vessel."

"Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the
wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the
yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes
and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration."

Cheers!

 

[Ogri]

I suppose the Fermentis US05 tech sheet is the more accurate figure. I was going by the info in the following thread;

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=441967

 

[r8rphan]

Okay, so I tried the rehydrating and proofing thing.. I boiled 1 cup of water, cooled to 105 (actually more like 100) then stirred in the yeast... waited fifteen minutes and then poured half of a mixture I had made with 1 cup of water and 2 Tbs of DME (brought to a boil and cooled) in with it in a sanitized mason jar, closed it, shook the crap out of it and poured it into a sanitized 2L erlemyer (sp?) flask..

Stuck a stopper and airlock in it and waited.. after 2 hours, nothing... So I boiled 2 cups of water, cooled, and added two more packets... poured it and the remaining half of the DME mixture in a mason jar, shook and added it to the flask.. another hour and a half.. nothing..

Instruction the web say the proof should start within a half hour (bubbles and gas) if the yeast is good...

So I added my last packet of old yeast (turns out I had four not three) to the flask sprinkling it directly on top and swishing the whole shebang around to get the yeast totally wet and dissolved.... boiled up some more DME (this 4 Tbs in 1 cup), and it's cooling now...



after adding the last packet, within the hour the thing is starting to produce gas and a foam layer on top, now about 3/8" thick...

I know you're not supposed to make a starter out of dry yeast, but that is evidently what I'm now doing.. lol

I'll add the rest of the DME when it gets down to room temp, and give it some time to get going, stir it all up by swirling the flask around, and then dump it in the fermenter..

If that doesn't work, I guess I'll have to go down into the valley in a couple days and get some fresh yeast, hydrate it, and sprinkle it on top...

But It's reproducing yeast cells now, and I really don't know how far I should let it go before pitching it... Maybe sooner is better than later, as it's going into a hostile environment with alcohol in it....

Or maybe it's better to wait and let it get a good head of krausen and then dump it???

Wasn't planning on having to do this, so this is all uncharted waters for me.... I've never even made a starter before... I had been collecting some of the stuff for it over time though....

Thoughts on where to go from here? Add the rest of the DME or no? Pitch now or wait?

Just went and looked at it, and there's about 600ml of liquid in the flask with about 3/4"-1" of foam on top now.. There is an additional cup or wort (4 4 tbs of DEM in it) cooling in the fridge....

So, hopefully someone can give me some more guidance soon..

Otherwise, I guess I'll just add the wort, stir, wait till it really gets going and pour it in the fermenter and hope for the best..

 

[r8rphan]

Well, added the wort, swirled it all around to mix it good, waited a couple hours, the 1" layer of krausen/foam had redeveloped (did that pretty quick), was producing gas at a pretty good clip..



Four 3-4 year old packets of S-05, 6 tbs of DME, 800ml of liquid in the flask

So, I just swirled it all around again, sanitized the neck, pulled the stopper, and poured it in the beer...

Said a little prayer...

Now I wait and see if it works...



Sure hope so.... If not, then that old yeast was in really bad shape.. ipe:

 

[Sadu]

Making a starter was the right thing to do. You want the yeast to be fully active before you repitch them into the stuck ferment. That thing about not making starters out of dry yeast doesn't apply when the yeast is old and you are unsure of it's viability.

100f sounds a bit hot to be pitching dry yeast into though - haven't tried this myself but that may be hot enough to kill some of the yeast. The packet normally says to rehydrate around 80f and starters should be a bit cooler than that, low 70's give or take.

 

[r8rphan]

Making a starter was the right thing to do. You want the yeast to be fully active before you repitch them into the stuck ferment. That thing about not making starters out of dry yeast doesn't apply when the yeast is old and you are unsure of it's viability.

100f sounds a bit hot to be pitching dry yeast into though - haven't tried this myself but that may be hot enough to kill some of the yeast. The packet normally says to rehydrate around 80f and starters should be a bit cooler than that, low 70's give or take.

I was going from John Palmer's book/instructions on how to do it... Sounded hot to me too.. But every instruction I can find on line says the same thing...

They all say 105, but I waited till it got down another 5 degrees.. It's also why I chose not to do it with the last package, just sprinkling it on the existing stuff in the flask..

Rehydrating dry yeast from 'How To Brew'

Should I expect to see krausen form again on my existing beer? There is none this morning, but I can smell that 'ferment' smell again that tells me it's producing at least 'some' gas..

Air lock activity is useless to me on this drew.. It's the first run with a new system (went from 2 6.5G glass carboys to a single 60L Speidel), and there is a problem with the seal on the blow off/thermowell port, so the air lock isn't part of the process on this one.. I didn't want to try and fix it' for risk of infection, So, just left it that way and will fix it before the next brew (I have to make an adapter for the gasket)

 

[r8rphan]

So, five days after repitching the yeast, and seeing zero activity or change in the FG, I have to assume that there is nothing left to convert...

I bought some fresh yeast and some champagne yeast, but I don't think it's worth bothering.. I'm pretty sure the readings will be the same after adding either of them too... I think there's just nothing left to ferment....

The beer actually tastes pretty good right now, so I think I will just cold crash it for a day or two, then keg it and see what I have..

But why the readings?

I used 'old pellet hops' that have been in the freezer in a vacu-sealed bag for three years, and I used old grain that was in a covered bucket for the same period, but never crushed until brew day.. The hops made more of a 'sludge' than I remembered, but then now I'm using a brand new system, different methodology, and different water....

I might have had unfermentables, or maybe something suspended in the beer is throwing the readings off? I think the 'sweetness' I was tasting might have been due to the yeast still suspended in the beer or the hops not having had time to mix/condition with the beer... The yeast is still suspended as I can see it accumulate on the bottom of the shot glass I am using to put the sample in, if I leave it in the fridge for a day or so... But that doesn't change the gravity readings...

So, I have no clue... anyways, it has a really nice mouth feel, is very smooth, and drinkable as far as I can tell... The smoothness is making me think it might be 'weak'.. But even the FG says there is almost 5% alcohol in there... and I have in general noticed in the past that my homebrew is 'smoother' than what I buy at the store....

Anyways, it's beer, it's drinkable, and I'm tired of waiting.. It might even turn out to be quite good once crashed, kegged, and carbonated..... I think it will...

Thoughts on what might have happened here?

 

[IslandLizard]

This is quite mysterious, have been there myself.

I brewed this 5 gallon batch of Old Ale for the club's barrel aging project and it got stuck at 1.032 (OG was 1.090) with 2 packets of S-04. 2 weeks, later, after some gentle stirring/rousing, and warming, even a repitch with another pack of S-04 at full krausen, nada! 1.032! It was a bit embarrassing taking the keg to the club, but heck. Most of them were around 1.016, same grain bill, most used the same yeast, S-04 or something similar.

The club members were puzzled too, some said a slight drop in temp could cause S-04 (and other British strains) to stall. Now US-05 is a different beast, it can plow through most anything.

I brewed a Little Sumpin' Sumpin' clone, using WY1968 (ESB yeast, WLP002), known for low attenuation, but that yeast seems to be the consensus. Mash temps are 121 then 160! Both times they ended at 1.022 (from 1.076 OG). It also takes a quarter pound of dry hops. The beer is wonderful, a little sweet, but Lagunitas is know for those.

The old grain may have been part of the problem, lack of beta-amylase, ending up with not enough fermentables, but loads of dextrins instead. Definitely double-check your mash temps, and conversion completion (residual starch), although it won't tell you about the dextrin content. Gradually warming the beer up when it's 75-80% done may help to prevent it from stalling. Perhaps even earlier, you never got to 75% here.

I've read many pros perform a rapid fermentation test, using the same wort and ferment it quickly with bread or champagne yeast at fairly high temps, so they know what the lowest possible FG is for that batch.

I'd just drink it as is, and brew another one.

 

[r8rphan]

I'd just drink it as is, and brew another one.

I think that is my plan.. It's really hard to tell what this beer will taste like though as there is a lot of suspended yeast in it...

So I think I just have to take a chance and cold crash it, keg it, carbonate and try it...

If It's too bad, I guess i could brew something with an adjusted recipe to add where this one is lacking and then mix them..

I've fixed a couple beers in the past that way...

I'm also gonna run one of the kegs through a hops randall on the way to the faucet so, if all else fails I can just hide it with hops.. lol

 

[IslandLizard]

I think that is my plan.. It's really hard to tell what this beer will taste like though as there is a lot of suspended yeast in it...

So I think I just have to take a chance and cold crash it, keg it, carbonate and try it...

If It's too bad, I guess i could brew something with an adjusted recipe to add where this one is lacking and then mix them..

I've fixed a couple beers in the past that way...

I'm also gonna run one of the kegs through a hops randall on the way to the faucet so, if all else fails I can just hide it with hops.. lol

Cold crash it for a few days, perhaps a week. Maybe add some gelatin first, US-05 is a terrible flocculator.

Since you've got an IPA you can dry hop it to taste or as you said, Randall it. Fruity, juicy hop combos like Amarillo/Simcoe/Citra/Mosaic/Centennial/Cascade work well in sweeter IPAs, Many successful commercial craft IPAs are also on the sweet side, just not 1.030, which kinda sucks. Just drink it for what it is, it could be way worse...

 

[Shock29]

I had a stuck fermentation once. Tried re-pitching US-05, made a starter with 1056, SG didn't budge. Finally, I pitched onto the yeast cake of another batch that I had finished. That brought it down another 20 points. There are a few threads on here that mention this is the only way to go... Good luck.

 

[cernst151]

Have you tried yeast nutrients? That worked on my stuck fermentation. Yeast nutrient and some simple sugar got things moving nicely.

 

[scrmndmn]

Can you share your recipe, at least the malt base? If I missed it, I apologize. This will help determine if non-fermentables were the issue. Also, did you all-grain and if so what was the mash temp and could that have been off? Once there is alcohol you should use a hydrometer for readings. I know there is an equation for refractometers, but you know for sure the reading with a hydrometer.

In terms of fermentation, how did you aerate? Did things get really cold, like into the 50s? 05 has a huge range that it will ferment, but there is the slim chance things went dormant. I know this is an old post at this point, but it may help down the road to get these questions answered. In terms of repitching everything sounds correct in terms of what you did.

 

[skwieland]

What was your mash temp on the original? You may have a ton of unfermentables.

That said, I have had great success using CBC-1 dry yeast on stuck fermentation and let it sit for two weeks and presto.

 

[meltroha]

So, my SG has not changed in over a week.. It's been in the fermenter 2 weeks... It's a ten gallon IPA, that was was pitched with 2 packets of Safele S-05.. sprinkled on top right from the package... Before I pitched the yeast, I put it on my brew table to warm to ambient temp, but when I went to grab it, the sun had moved and was on them, and they felt a little warm.. So I might have overheated a lot of the yeast in the sun.. I dunno what else to blame.. Two packets should have been plenty for this beer, shouldn't it?....

Refractometer says 1.045... OG was 1.065.. So using a calculator, the adjusted SG is 1.030.... I measured it using a hydrometer last Wednesday and it confirmed the 1.030.... 1.016 was the target FG... (currently at 4.86% ABV of targeted 6.6%)

Just took another sample and the current gravity is still 1.045 on the refractometer...

Sample tastes alright.. previously overpowering hops are mellowing out, but still sweet.. I think it would be a good beer if I can just get the thing to finish ferment..

Any ideas? I have 3 old packets of S-05 (a year and a half past expiration but has been in the fridge the whole time), and 2 fresh packets of S04... I also found an unopened 5 gram, years old package of "LALVIN" Saccharomyces Cerevisiae in the bar fridge with the old yeast... I have never used the stuff before, so I know nothing about shelf life or use...

I pitched and fermented at 68 degrees, but last Saturday raised the temp up about 4 degrees over 2 days, and left it there since, hoping to get it going again.... I aerated with a stone and air pump right in the keggle for about 10 minutes or more once the wort temp dropped below 120 degrees and left it in there for a few minutes after it reached pitching temp (turning off the cooling water and just recirculating through the CFC)

I was hoping to be transferring to kegs today, but I gotta fix this first, if possible.....

Any ideas?

I would have used 3 packets and re-hydrated. Now, add oxygen, add 2 more packets re-hydrated, stir in. Do not raise temp above 70 with that strain, ever.

 

[Ameritoon]

What was your mash temp on the original? You may have a ton of unfermentables.

This is what I was thinking... a lot of information given about the pitching temps but nothing about what type of match this was.

I had a similar experience with a Scotch Ale. I was hitting all my numbers but my mash temp was too high. So even though I was getting a SG 1.042 on my mash (pre-boil 6.5 gallons). My temps were too high so the sugars were unfermentable. I ended up having to toss the whole batch... I was pitching S-04 - which is usually a very agressive, high krausen yeast!

 

[texby]

As for me, I would add yeast nutrient as per packet instructions to the batch. Use additional yeast (you won't need much) and do a started batch in a separate container. I use some honey and some sugar. After it starts (day or two) pitch it in your must. That should do it.