Struggling.

[Brewnation]

I just built a new brew stand and started fly sparging. I've brewed twice on it. First was about 59% efficiency. Second 82% third 60% . Think I might be going to fast with the lower efficiency brews. Besides lower ABV is this going to affect my brew in other ways. How long should you typically sparge for? Also while adjusting my PH I added a little too much lactic acid and my pH ended up at 4.9. What effect will this have on my final product?

 

[jddevinn]

I just built a new brew stand and started fly sparging. I've brewed twice on it. First was about 59% efficiency. Second 82% third 60% . Think I might be going to fast with the lower efficiency brews. Besides lower ABV is this going to affect my brew in other ways. How long should you typically sparge for?

I generally sparge at a rate of about .2 gallons/minute.

 

[Brewnation]

I sparge for about 35-40 minutes. Not sure why my efficiency is so low.

 

[beskone]

I sparge a slow as possible, Usually takes at least an hour to gather my pre-boil volume - 6.5 gallons.

I get 80% efficiency dead on every brew day.

 

[jddevinn]

1. What size batch?
2. What is your mash thickness?
3. What temp/temps are you mashing? Are you doing a mashout?
4. Is the sparge water inlet/outlet the same rate?
5. Have you measured the gravity at the start/end of the sparge?
6. PH of the sparge water? PH of the mash?
7. Is the preboil gravity as expected? Boil off as expected?

 

[Spartan1979]

I aim for about 2.5 minutes/gallon. My efficiency is about 74%. I know I could get better if I slowed it down, but I rather throw in a bit more grain and save the time. To me, the most important thing is to figure out how to be consistent from batch to batch. I vorlauf into a pitcher that has 1/2 gallon marked. I'll time how long it takes to get to the 1/2 gallon mark and adjust my flow accordingly. I'll keep vorlaufing until I get it adjusted and then I go to the kettle.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I just built a new brew stand and started fly sparging. I've brewed twice on it. First was about 59% efficiency. Second 82% third 60% . Think I might be going to fast with the lower efficiency brews. Besides lower ABV is this going to affect my brew in other ways. How long should you typically sparge for? Also while adjusting my PH I added a little too much lactic acid and my pH ended up at 4.9. What effect will this have on my final product?

I usually get very good mash efficiency results with 1 quart per minute.

My rate of sparging greatly affects my efficiency, so I try hard to keep this rate stable. It's not easy with ball valves, since even the slightest nudge on the valves when you're using a pump affects the flow a good deal. Maybe I should look into getting some kind of electrical damper to reduce the pump flow rate instead of relying on the valves to reduce flow. But the pumps probably wouldn't react well to a reduced electrical input. More research is needed I guess.

A pH of 4.9 probably would have messed with your mash efficiency a good deal, so you probably already noticed that you didn't hit your OG. Unless you boiled off more to hit your OG, in which case you got a lower batch volume.

Too much lactic acid, especially in a light-colored beer, may result in you really tasting that lactic acid in there. Gives it a bit of a yogurt sourness.

 

[Brewnation]

What size batch? 5.5
What is your mash thickness? 1.50q per lb
What temp/temps are you mashing? 153. Are you doing a mashout? 175
Is the sparge water inlet/outlet the same rate?yes
Have you measured the gravity at the start/end of the sparge? No
PH of the sparge water? 5.7 PH of the mash?4.9
Is the preboil gravity as expected? No. Boil off as expected? Yes

Missed preboil gravity by .020

 

[Brewnation]

I put 1 tsp lactic acid and it went from 5.8 to 4.9. First time using it. Didn't realize how potent it is

 

[LandoLincoln]

I put 1 tsp lactic acid and it went from 5.8 to 4.9. First time using it. Didn't realize how potent it is

Invest in a 10ml graduated cylinder. You're not going to get anywhere with teaspoons.

 

[Oventoasted]

personally if i go less then a quart per minute my flow from the mash tun doesnt have enough suction to get through the grain bed and comes to a slow trickle.

 

[daksin]

You're probably sparging too fast- shoot for at least 60, more like 90 minutes. You may be getting some channeling and losing lauter efficiency. Next batch, measure your first runnings, and then pull a few samples from throughout the sparge to see what your second runnings look like, gravity-wise. This should help you isolate the problem.

 

[Transamguy77]

Who crushes your grains? If it's from where you buy it that could be part of your problem, I have read about an inconsistent crush. I personally have always milled my own grains and get 80ish efficiency consistently by fly sparging.
I make 10 gallons and my sparge time is close to 90 mins.

 

[Brewnation]

I brewed again yesterday. 12.5 lbs grain. 4.5 gallons water. Ph 5.29. Sparge water 6.2 ph 180 degrees. Estimated pre boil 1.054 on beersmith. After sparging for 45 min I had collected 5 gallons and was below that. Ithe was 1.045. Ended up at 61%efficiency. Im stumped. I don't think I can sparge much slower.frustrated.

 

[brewcat]

How about stirring the mash again about half way through. Sounds like maybe the grain crush.

 

[jddevinn]

Post some pictures of your mashton would you? So we can see if there is a obvious equipment error. Did you take the first runnings gravity? Sounds like you may somehow be channelling or not maintaining level in the MT so that everything but the first runnings are low on gravity???

 

[Brewnation]

I'll get pictures later. First running were 1.075

 

[jddevinn]

I'll get pictures later. First running were 1.075

I brewed again yesterday. 12.5 lbs grain. 4.5 gallons water. Ph 5.29. Sparge water 6.2 ph 180 degrees. Estimated pre boil 1.054 on beersmith. After sparging for 45 min I had collected 5 gallons and was below that. Ithe was 1.045. Ended up at 61%efficiency. Im stumped. I don't think I can sparge much slower.frustrated.

Alright, let's look at this with a little detail. I was going to do some math, however a search finds that braukaiser has already done it for us (with a small amount of changes in interpretation). http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator

This is a batch sparging calculation however limiting ourselves to the initial mash and first run off calculations we can compare what you measure as the gravity when you start fly sparing to the expected first runnings of a batch sparge.

• I am assuming that the 80% fine grind dry basis and 4% moisture content are correct (they should be close if recipie is good, look here for an example of how to calc for your recipe and refine the calc).
• the calculator assumes that you extract all possible water into the "first runnings" and calculates the gravity of the total volume, I am comparing the total first running (calculated as 3 gallons) to the initial reading at the beginning of the batch sparge and stating they should be equal OR the reading at the beginning of the batch sparge should be HIGHER than the value calculated for a 3 gallon first running batch.

Calculated using this method to obtain a 1.075 measurement of the initial wort of the sly sparge your conversion efficiency has to be BELOW 87.5 (and the related mash efficiency of the first running IF this was a batch would be 51.3%). This points to the issue not being in the sparge technique but a general low efficiency of the mash.

1. As mentioned before grain crush is one of the first things to look at.
2. check if your thermometers are calibrated
3. check for hot spots in the mash outside of where the normal measurement is
4. check for doughballs
5. check to ensure your recipe is accurate and you are following it accurately (mislabeled or mis shipped grains??)
6. Give this a read http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Understanding_Efficiency

 

[doug293cz]

I brewed again yesterday. 12.5 lbs grain. 4.5 gallons water. Ph 5.29. Sparge water 6.2 ph 180 degrees. Estimated pre boil 1.054 on beersmith. After sparging for 45 min I had collected 5 gallons and was below that. Ithe was 1.045. Ended up at 61%efficiency. Im stumped. I don't think I can sparge much slower.frustrated.

I'll get pictures later. First running were 1.075

Alright, let's look at this with a little detail. I was going to do some math, however a search finds that braukaiser has already done it for us (with a small amount of changes in interpretation). http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator

This is a batch sparging calculation however limiting ourselves to the initial mash and first run off calculations we can compare what you measure as the gravity when you start fly sparing to the expected first runnings of a batch sparge.

• I am assuming that the 80% fine grind dry basis and 4% moisture content are correct (they should be close if recipie is good, look here for an example of how to calc for your recipe and refine the calc).
• the calculator assumes that you extract all possible water into the "first runnings" and calculates the gravity of the total volume, I am comparing the total first running (calculated as 3 gallons) to the initial reading at the beginning of the batch sparge and stating they should be equal OR the reading at the beginning of the batch sparge should be HIGHER than the value calculated for a 3 gallon first running batch.

Calculated using this method to obtain a 1.075 measurement of the initial wort of the sly sparge your conversion efficiency has to be BELOW 87.5 (and the related mash efficiency of the first running IF this was a batch would be 51.3%). This points to the issue not being in the sparge technique but a general low efficiency of the mash.

1. As mentioned before grain crush is one of the first things to look at.
2. check if your thermometers are calibrated
3. check for hot spots in the mash outside of where the normal measurement is
4. check for doughballs
5. check to ensure your recipe is accurate and you are following it accurately (mislabeled or mis shipped grains??)
6. Give this a read http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Understanding_Efficiency

OP puts their efficiency at 61% for this batch. OP doesn't say, but if we assume that that is mash efficiency, then with 87.5% conversion efficiency, the lauter efficiency would be 0.61 / 0.875 = 0.697, or less than 70% lauter efficiency. If the 61% is brewhouse efficiency, then either the lauter efficiency is not much higher than 70%, or OP has huge volume losses going from BK to fermenter. Less than 75% lauter efficiency is terrible for fly sparging. So, I would say OP has both incomplete conversion, and a low efficiency fly sparging process.

I would recommend OP try monitoring the conversion efficiency using Kai Troester's method here, and doing a couple of batches with equal runnings batch sparging to see if they can improve both conversion and lauter efficiency.

Brew on

 

[Brewnation]

Here are some pics of my mash tun and set up.

 

[jddevinn]

How hard does the water fall out of that sparge arm? It it disturbing the grain? Falling with enough force to get through the top layer of water instead of replacing it? Try replacing it with a longish section of hose that lays on top of the grain bed.

 

[November]

I get good results at a quart per minute. To get my ball valves in sync I have a set of feeler gauges that are set for the gap between the valve stop and and the handle for the opening that I need for 1 qt per minute. To set it I just stick the feeler gauge between the valve stop and the handle and close it till it is stopped by the gauge. Works pretty well.