Struggling to know if my water is ruining my beer!!!

[Finlandbrews]

Thanks a lot ajdelange! Super helpful!!! I have other comments and questions after your answers.

You referred to chlorine of 0.2/0.3 ppm to be low. I would still need to make a test on that as this was the information given to me. I wanted to ask can that threshold be tasted by humans when drinking?

Also another HBT member wrote that for brewing purposes, that concentration of chlorine is way to high and should be well Below ppb not to affect taste of my final beer, is that coherent information to your knowledge?

Is there a method to calculate the time it will take for "evaporation" of 0.2 ppm chlorine if I leave my water to sit in my mash Tun? I believe it depends on my vessel shape, water volume, atmospheric pressure, temperature outside and as well of my water?

I'm asking this just to know if it would make sense and be practical to leave the water to sit outside (now it won't be possible because it is freezing but for the summer it could be useful).

One of my family member opened a tap from the house which was last in use a month earlier and said that the smell was like mold which means a bad odor is caught when water stagnate! Is that normal? To that I wonder if the low pH of the water couldn't be responsible for catching some dirty stuff along the pipes? As discussed, the water is released from the plant at 7.55 and measured in my tap at 6.90... One very strange thing is actually that the RO plant operator had also said that in the past he used to add sulfuric acid before the water was going through the chalk but realized it was making the chalk filtration less efficient and therefore decided to add sulfuric acid after the chalk filtration instead (I don't know whom decided actually but I know the contact person of the authority which is controlling the water and is responsible to give corrective measures in case something is not executed properly).

What means when you say the water is under saturated with respect to caco3: do you mean it can be corrosive and if so how do you know that?

Regarding lowering the pH to be lowered from 8.57 because of WHO I'm not sure because I got a report from the water I get on the mainland and it says that the recommendation for pH should be in the range of 6.9 to 9.5 and this is according to the Decree from the Finnish ministry of social affairs and health relating to the quality and monitoring of water for human consumption 461/2000.

 

[Finlandbrews]

I'm not yet going to buy an RO as I will test charcoal filter and letting the water sit and see if it can improve my beer considerably but I wanted to get your opinion on these two products if they are any good or if some better products should be considered. My budget will be below 300$.

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[ajdelange]

You referred to chlorine of 0.2/0.3 ppm to be low. I would still need to make a test on that as this was the information given to me. I wanted to ask can that threshold be tasted by humans when drinking?

That depends on the human to some extent. Do you taste or smell it when drawing a glass of water from the tap? Many people would be able to at that level but many would not.

Also another HBT member wrote that for brewing purposes, that concentration of chlorine is way to high and should be well Below ppb not to affect taste of my final beer, is that coherent information to your knowledge?

It is except that chlorine and chlorphenolic are being confused. Chlrophenolics have taste and smell thresholds of ppb. Chlorine is well above that. The real question that you need the answer to is "Will chlorine at 0.2 - 0.3 ppm induce chlorphenolic levels above taste/smell threshold?" Again the answer is uncertain and depends not only on the chlorine level but on the amount and types of phenols. I have judged beers in competitions brewed by guys using the same water supply. Some will exhibit the chlorphenolics and some won't.

It is, of course, best to play it safe and be sure the chlorine is out.

Is there a method to calculate the time it will take for "evaporation" of 0.2 ppm chlorine if I leave my water to sit in my mash Tun? I believe it depends on my vessel shape, water volume, atmospheric pressure, temperature outside and as well of my water?

It depends on all of those (except atmospheric pressure). Agitation of the water helps as does good air movement over the pot. In general people seem to think that an overnight stand is sufficient to clear 20 - 40 L of amounts up to a couple of mg/L. If you are like most people with respect to being able to smell chlorine and you can't smell it in the water it is at a low enough level that you can confidently brew with it. To be absolutely certain use part of a Campden tablet.

I'm asking this just to know if it would make sense and be practical to leave the water to sit outside (now it won't be possible because it is freezing but for the summer it could be useful).

Or let it sit in the kitchen.

One of my family member opened a tap from the house which was last in use a month earlier and said that the smell was like mold which means a bad odor is caught when water stagnate! Is that normal?

I'd say no but then I don't have the same species of mold that you do. This would be one of the reasons chloramine might be used. It isn't as good a germacide but it is more persistent. Or perhaps your plant should be dosing to higher than 0.3 ppm chlorine. It's possible that a biofilm has built up inside your plumbing and if that's the case you would need to consult a professional.

Be sure, before drawing brewing water, that you run the tap for long enough to thoroughly flush the pipes. A carbon filter just before the point where you take the water might help.

To that I wonder if the low pH of the water couldn't be responsible for catching some dirty stuff along the pipes? As discussed, the water is released from the plant at 7.55 and measured in my tap at 6.90...

I don't think that's what is happening. There is no where between the plant and the tap where acid could be injected to cause a pH drop. Lower pH out of the tap than at the plant outlet is a discrepancy that must be resolved. You would need to verify that you pH meter is stable and properly calibrated and take measurements at both places or have the water authority come measure at your tap.

One very strange thing is actually that the RO plant operator had also said that in the past he used to add sulfuric acid before the water was going through the chalk but realized it was making the chalk filtration less efficient and therefore decided to add sulfuric acid after the chalk filtration instead (I don't know whom decided actually but I know the contact person of the authority which is controlling the water and is responsible to give corrective measures in case something is not executed properly).

If he adds it before the chalk bed more chalk will be dissolved and the calcium level will be higher. I don't see how that would make the chalk less effective as a filter unless so much of it dissolved that it no longer formed a thick enough bed.

What means when you say the water is under saturated with respect to caco3:

Under saturated means that more calcium carbonate can dissolve in it than is already dissolved in it and that, therefore, any calcium carbonate which is deposited on the walls of piping, thus protecting it from the corrosive effects of water, will be removed thus also removing that protection.

...do you mean it can be corrosive and if so how do you know that?

That is the implication based on simple reasoning that if it is undersaturated it will remove calcium carbonate and if oversaturated it will deposit it so that undersaturation (pH of the water lower than the pH at which it is satyrated) may eventually result in corrosion. But I don't know that. Prediction of when corrosion will occur is tricky. There are a couple of different indices which water works compute in order to understand whether they have to take steps to protect their distribution mains. None of these indices is considered a perfect indicator.

Regarding lowering the pH to be lowered from 8.57 because of WHO I'm not sure because I got a report from the water I get on the mainland and it says that the recommendation for pH should be in the range of 6.9 to 9.5 and this is according to the Decree from the Finnish ministry of social affairs and health relating to the quality and monitoring of water for human consumption 461/2000.

I was just guessing that they might be trying to stay within the WHO recommendations. I don't understand them as I see no problem with pH higher than 8.5 (within limits). The WHO limit is certainly widely ignored in the US.

 

[Finlandbrews]

I start to get a bit more knowledge on the water I get as I made the salifert total hardness/alkalinity test. I have gotten 0.6 dKH maybe slightly lower even and this seem to be 0.22 meq/L. What can I deduct from these values now? When I had sent my water to a lab test few months ago I received 8ppm for calcium and 2 ppm for magnesium while my chloride and sodium are high 150ppm and 180ppm. Also that lab reported to me 20 ppm alkalinity as caco3 and now my alkalinity is maximum the concentration of 0.22 meq/L. I have no free chlorine and my total chlorine is below 1 ppm. What I really want to figure out is if that RO filter to treat the Baltic sea water removes all pollutants and other mess detectable compounds which could make bad taste to my beer. Taste of the water has improved a little bit though. I know salifert has another kit for organic pollutants, could that be of help? Or a tds meter would be more helpful?