Stout Brewing Water

[Silver_Is_Money]

Perhaps. Let's see if I can sum up what I've read so far. Tell me how poorly I've gotten this.

1. There is a great degree of disagreement about the basic formulation of pH, and source water profiles seems to complicate things (calculators work better with RO water).
2. Calculating pH is really flipping hard; measuring is better.
3. Baking Soda additions are generally not necessary except to raise the pH although they won't hurt in small amounts(at least for my water).
4. Higher pH than the traditional brewing range is not necessary, but it has some flavor impact that some people enjoy.
5. Moderate levels of sodium are OK, but not necessary (again this is about taste).
6. Y'all know a hell of a lot more than I do.

1) I feel cheated when a calculator is not capable of utilizing any source water, or water blends. Minerals and alkalinity in source water hardly complicate things (unless the analyticals are not stable over time for your source).

2) What is flipping hard is guessing as to the acidity nature and buffering nature of individual lots of malts/grains when no actual analyticals are present, and only a guesstimate of a Lovibond color is provided.

3) Baking soda raises pH and adds sodium. Its use is dictated by grist needs, water alkalinity, water volume, water mineralization (inherent or added), and desired mash pH. There can be no 'valid' sweeping statement that a little will not hurt.

4) True. But with that said, I'm leaning to the higher end of traditional mash pH's going forward (subject to change if I find that I don't like the general outcome).

5) What can I say, I like a moderate amount of sodium. Many people salt their beer. Ditto their coffee. That's way more than moderate.

6) No way to comment on this one.

 

[Stand]

I feel bad about giving too little information at the start, but I never expected so many people would be willing to do the work of running the numbers and considering this problem even at the level of detail I started with.

Frankly the response has been overwhelming, and I mean that in the best possible way.

I won't say I understand everything being said here, but I think I have a much better impression of where I need to be.

That said I need to reread this thread a few more times.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

Frankly the response has been overwhelming, and I mean that in the best possible way.

I won't say I understand everything being said here, but I think I have a much better impression of where I need to be.

That said I need to reread this thread a few more times.

Don’t feel bad. The amount of information being shared here is unprecedented. And consuming it all is like sipping water from a firehose. Read ask questions and give yourself time to absorb it all.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

1) I feel cheated when a calculator is not capable of utilizing any source water, or water blends. Minerals and alkalinity in source water hardly complicate things (unless the analyticals are not stable over time for your source)

It’s all about eliminating variables owning a good quality RO filter and brewing a lot of beer styles. Starting out with pure RO water keeps the main focus on grain pH. And levels the playing field by consistently starting out with the same source water.

 

[ajdelange]

The "Quote" feature isn't working today so I'll have to do it manually. I'd say you understand things pretty well.

Perhaps. Let's see if I can sum up what I've read so far. Tell me how poorly I've gotten this.

1. There is a great degree of disagreement about the basic formulation of pH, and source water profiles seems to complicate things (calculators work better with RO water).

I'm not sure there is disagreement. Some spreadsheet authors do no understand the basic chemistry, some have eccentric ways of quantifying water data, some ignore essential water information and some, in order to simplify their algorithms make assumptions. Water chemistry is trivially simple until you add bicarbonate (alkalinity). Thus even the ones that are flawed work well with RO water. It is not necessary to match a profile to brew a good beer. The water needs to have only the general characteristics of the water associated with the style to give a good representation of it. One must be somewhat cautious with profiles however as, noted earlier, their authors don't always understand the chemistry. I came across one the other day in which alkalinity was added from sodium bicarbonate only to be taken right back out gain with lime.

2. Calculating pH is really flipping hard; measuring is better.

The calculations are, actually, amazingly simple. It is getting data that accurately represent the malts actually being used that is hard. A pH measurement will always be best.

3. Baking Soda additions are generally not necessary except to raise the pH although they won't hurt in small amounts(at least for my water).

They will always pull mash pH up when in general we are trying to pull it down so, unless you want higher pH for some reason, adding bicarbonate is detrimental. In many cases we find guys acidifying and then adding bicarbonate. This is working against yourself.

4. Higher pH than the traditional brewing range is not necessary, but it has some flavor impact that some people enjoy.

This is really a mater of opinion. Some people firmly believe that stouts should be mashed at higher pH than normal. You will have to determine for yourself whether you are one of those people.

5. Moderate levels of sodium are OK, but not necessary (again this is about taste).

The bit in parentheses is the key.

6. Y'all know a hell of a lot more than I do.

About brewing water chemistry, perhaps but about.....?