Storing beer horizontally?

[seamlessvoid]

Hey all,

I have dug around for some answers but I can't find anything definitive on storing beer. My question is, after the beer is through conditioning in the bottle, would there be any significant drawbacks to storing the bottles horizontally in a wine rack? Again, after conditioning is complete. Should there be concerns about yeast in suspension if I remove the beer from the rack to the fridge where it will again be vertical?


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[Tinga]

as long as it spends a couple days in the fridge vertical before being served to make sure the yeast makes its way to the bottom, I don't think it should be a problem.

 

[Xpertskir]

Not a good idea

1. It increases the surface area of air exposed to the beer.

2. It also makes it difficult to get a good pour and leave behind the yeast, even if you stand them up prior to serving as suggested above.

 

[JoppaFarms]

1. It increases the surface area of air exposed to the beer.

Won't the yeast still left in the beer that carbonated it have "eaten" all the oxygen and replaced it with CO2?

 

[steveoatley]

If you are going to store them horizontaly

Wax the cap.
Cork is much better at keeping the air out & wine in than a Crown Cap
So a good dip in wax will help keep the beer in and oxygen out.

S

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Storing beer horizontally?

I call that a nap.

 

[Teromous]

You won't find a definitive answer because people have differing opinions and argue about it. I store all of my bottle cap beers upright, even if they have no perceivable yeast present.

Here's some reading that should help you out:
Draft
RateBeer
BeerAdvocate

 

[Skep18]

Beer surface area to the air is a non-issue. The beer will exchange gases with the air in the bottle so no matter the surface area, it will oxidize just as much as if it were standing up. It might do it faster on its side, but after a couple days, the system will reach equilibrium and the beer will absord some oxygen and release CO2 or whatever in its place enough to balance everything out.

Yeast would be my issue with it. It will probably settle on the side, at least enough to get into your beer when you pour it.

 

[Wynne-R]

Skep18, I agree with you except for the speed of the oxidation. I think the oxidation is very slow, not due to chemistry, but physics. The diffusion of gas into liquid is very slow.

A really big beer takes months, if not years to develop sherry notes. Smaller beers don’t show a lot of oxidation except when they’ve been handled roughly.

 

[unionrdr]

Stoeing the beer on it's side would give a larger surface area than what you'd get standing them upright. Instead of that little round surface aera of the upright one,you'd have a narrow space the length of the bottle exposed. Carbonation being a slow process,I wouldn't trust it. Besides crown caps not being designed for horizontal storage. This question comes up every now & then,& usually seems to be from a wine maker/afficianoto that thinks they can store beer the same as wine. The answer is no. Beer is not wine.

 

[Skep18]

Skep18, I agree with you except for the speed of the oxidation. I think the oxidation is very slow, not due to chemistry, but physics. The diffusion of gas into liquid is very slow.

A really big beer takes months, if not years to develop sherry notes. Smaller beers don’t show a lot of oxidation except when they’ve been handled roughly.

Interesting. I can conceptually get, but don't fully understand the sherry notes. However, I assumed its quite like force carbing, be it with oxygen or CO2, it makes no appreciable difference. Whether you force carb with a keg or bottle condition, the beer only carbs because the head space develops pressure and pushes it into the beer. I would think this also pushes whatever leftover oxygen into the beer just the same. If the beer is fizzy and the headspace was not purged with CO2, the existing oxygen in the headspace will have diffused into the beer along with the CO2 until some equilibrium is achieved.

My only explanation is the oxidation must not be a matter of how much oxygen gets into the beer as much as it is the time the oxygen spends there. Either way, if it works as stated above, I would still think surface area is not a major factor.

 

[GuldTuborg]

What time frame are you talking about? I think that's the key.

If it's short storage, I doubt there is much of a problem. If you're talking long term, I'd worry about the cap rusting faster than it normally would.

And where did this idea come from that corks seal better than caps? Most every pro brewer I have heard from states exactly the opposite. Caps do a better job at preventing oxygen ingress.

 

[unionrdr]

Like I said,beer in bottles doesn't carbonate all that fast. Not to mention,did you oxygenate the beer somehow in racking it,etc? It's oxygen content vs yeast numbers & how soon they can absorb what's in there. Also how much is absorbed by the slowly forming co2 till equllibrium is attained. The off flavors come from this time & oxygen load.

 

[one-L]

Would be interested to see what folks think about corked bottles though. You store wine bottles horizontal (at least in my understanding) to keep the corks wet, as dry corks shrink and lead to bad things. Wonder what best practice is on corked beer kept over a period of years? Horizontal? Give 'em a tip to the side very so often to keep things moist and then return upright? Had a bottle of the 6th Glass that I cellared for bout 3 years upright, and when we popped it recently for a special occasion cork was very dry, and most of the carb was gone. Still good, but I feel like not as good as it could have been.

 

[unionrdr]

I remember reading something about champagnes being stored at an angle. This way,the wine was lapping at the cork to keep in moistened in order to maintain the seal. so in light of that,I imagine corked belgians & the like would be about the same. But crown caps? No,I don't think so. It's a different kind of seal.

 

[Skep18]

Like I said,beer in bottles doesn't carbonate all that fast. Not to mention,did you oxygenate the beer somehow in racking it,etc? It's oxygen content vs yeast numbers & how soon they can absorb what's in there. Also how much is absorbed by the slowly forming co2 till equllibrium is attained. The off flavors come from this time & oxygen load.

Right but if its carbonated, then the oxygen is in the solution just the same. Only way I imagine you can avoid that is drink flat beer?

 

[GuldTuborg]

Wonder what best practice is on corked beer kept over a period of years? Horizontal?

Corked beer should probably follow practices for carbonated wines sealed with corks (think, Champagne) and be stood upright. At least that's what most of the pros say. There's unfortunately little real research on the topic. Horizontal storage is thought of as OK, but not as good as upright, with greater differences showing the longer they stay in each position.

 

[unionrdr]

The o2 in solution would not be the same in roughly handled racking of the beer,or improper bottling technique/equipment. It is possible to get more o2 into solution than can be absorbed. That's what oxugenated beer is. & why it tastes,more often as not,like moldy carboard out of a dank,musty basement. Sherry flavors are rare,in my experiences.

 

[Skep18]

The o2 in solution would not be the same in roughly handled racking of the beer,or improper bottling technique/equipment. It is possible to get more o2 into solution than can be absorbed. That's what oxugenated beer is. & why it tastes,more often as not,like moldy carboard out of a dank,musty basement. Sherry flavors are rare,in my experiences.

Assuming one prepared, fermented and bottled beer properly, the oxygen in the headspace will be pushed into the beer just the same as the CO2. If the beer is carbonated, the headpsace does not magically stay at the top in the headpsace. It mixes with the generated CO2 and diffuses into the beer.

If I'm misunderstanding something and we're talking apples and oranges here, my apologies. I'm just stating if you store beer on its side and drink it when its carbonated, the surface area will have no effect. If the CO2 goes in, some/most of the original headspace will also go in. More surface area would only mean both the CO2 and the oxygen went in faster.

 

[one-L]

Corked beer should probably follow practices for carbonated wines sealed with corks (think, Champagne) and be stood upright. At least that's what most of the pros say. There's unfortunately little real research on the topic. Horizontal storage is thought of as OK, but not as good as upright, with greater differences showing the longer they stay in each position.

Word. Some quick google-fu'ing has demonstrated to me that there are as many different opinions on this in regards to wine as there are on any number of issues on here (primary/secondary, steel/aluminum, etc.). Mostly a YMMV situation.

 

[JoppaFarms]

Whether you store the beer upright or on its size in a SEALED bottle will not change the chance of oxygenation. When you bottle, inevitably there will be some oxygen in the bottle. However, the yeast left over that are carbonating the beer will absorb/use that oxygen in the mini-fermentation. Considering this is a closed system (capped, nothing in, nothing out, until you open the bottle) the surface area is irrelevant. The headspace is nearly all CO2, that's how it gets into solution in the beer.

The real concern would be sediment more than anything. I would stand the bottle upright long enough for that sediment to resettle at the bottom before opening and serving.

As far as bottle caps not being made for storage that way, I don't know about that. I know that I have "checked" beer on a flight as luggage before and I know that it sat on it's side without leaking or anything crazy. It tasted just as delicious when I got it on the other side.

 

[unionrdr]

In short term transport,yeah,I've done that & it's fine. But long term I'd have to question. & the trub/yeast on the side when pouring wouldn't be a good thing. When I made wine,I stored & fridged them upright to get the settlings compacted on the bottom. But those were screw caps. Corked wines were better stored at an angle.
Anyway,oxygenated beer is a function of oxygen content vs how much the small amount of yeast can use up when turning the priming solution into carbonation. Too much o2,& it won't be absorbed during the carbonation process,& you get musty basement cardboard smell & taste.

 

[Rhumbline]

I always store my corked wines on their side. I've never seen any reputable data that suggests storing them standing up. it's what is typically done in wine stores just to save shelf space.

I also store my corked Belgians on their side to keep the corks from drying out and I've heard it leaves a greater surface area of yeast in contact with the beer, but I have no opinion one way or the other on this.

 

[seamlessvoid]

Well, glad we can all agree then ;-).
Most of the bottles will be short term storage. But some of them I am planning to store until August for my wedding, giving everyone a 22oz beer, so I guess quite a few. I'm going to try storing both ways and
compare.
Thanks!


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[Wynne-R]

My observations are experimental. I’m not really qualified to do quantitative analysis on this; but let me throw out a few things:

CO2 is being evolved in the beer by the yeast. That part doesn’t have to ‘dissolve’, it’s already there. The idea that CO2 rushes to the headspace to be slowly re-absorbed into the beer is just wrong. See ‘partial pressure’ and ‘Henry’s law’.

The CO2 in a keg is under several atmospheres of pressure, the other gases much less. Oxygen is about 21% by volume, it’s partial pressure is going to be .2 atm or less.

This doesn’t count the oxygen dilution caused by CO2 evolution, often (incorrectly) called “CO2 blanket”.

CO2 solubility in water is about 50 times that of oxygen.

 

[ahpsp]

Saison Dupont was (maybe still is) traditionally carbed and stored on its side. Those are corked bottles. The "corked" flavor is identified as an important characteristic of the "vinous" flavor. Phil Markowski talks about the same thing being an important part of Biere de Garde.

 

[WI_Wino]

I made some mead 7 years ago and have 2 quart bottles (crown capped) laying on their sides in my wine rack. Just looked at them and there's No leakage at all. Can't speak to any oxidation concerns though.


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