Starting to build an electric setup...

[ebj5883]

I'm probably going to change this into more of a general question thread at some point, but for now, my only issue is with heating elements. At any rate...

I'm looking through the setup here at http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/ and I notice that they suggest 240v elements. I've looked up converting 120v to 240v, and found converters. Is this generally what people use? I can't imagine that many people have 240v outlets outdoors. I would use 120v, but it seems somewhat more expensive, as well as slower - at least from what I've found.

 

[prmurphy63026]

How big are your batches and how much time are you willing to spend waiting for water and wort to come to temp?

Do a google search for "electricheat.xls". It's an Excel spreadsheet that will give you the time to temp for a given volume of water and heating element. It has several calculating tables though and will also give you time to boil from a given temp for a given volume and given heating element.

If you're doing anything over 5 gallons you're probably going to want to look at 240V.

Figure this out first, then you can determine what size of element you want (wattage) and the components needed to control it.

 

[poptarts]

most people who do electric do it indoors or at least in the garage with a 240. if you are doing anything over 3 gallon batches you will need a 240 30A service or dual 120 20A services.

 

[ebj5883]

Right now, I'm doing 5-10 gallon batches, primarily 5 gallon ones. Would two 120v elements be better? I'll check out that spreadsheet.

 

[prmurphy63026]

The amount of energy required for a given size volume of water does not change regardless of you using 1 240v element or 2 120v elements.

Using 2 120v elements is possible and folks do that reliably and safely. You need to ensure you are pulling from 2 different circuits (i.e. breakers) though, otherwise you will overload a single circuit and trip the breaker.

 

[poptarts]

yea 2 120s 2000w can do 5, but you do need 2 20A circuits, probably not an issue if you have a newer house but could be problematic if your home is older. No one says you cant rock giant amounts of extension cords though. If your load center is in an area near where you could brew though might be worth looking into getting a 240 circuit there, the cost for those is like 20$ in parts then like 2$ a foot for cable.

 

[ebj5883]

yea 2 120s 2000w can do 5, but you do need 2 20A circuits, probably not an issue if you have a newer house but could be problematic if your home is older. No one says you cant rock giant amounts of extension cords though. If your load center is in an area near where you could brew though might be worth looking into getting a 240 circuit there, the cost for those is like 20$ in parts then like 2$ a foot for cable.

Parts to switch to a 240v outlet wouldn't be an issue. My issue lies in the fact that I'm certainly no electrician (my friend is one though), and that it would be nice to go mobile. However, that last part is strictly out of convenience. To get to the important stuff, how quickly would two 120v elements heat say, 10 gallons of water, vs. one 240v? Obviously that depends on wattage, but assuming the best practical option for both cases, what would I be looking at?

 

[poptarts]

with 120 the most you can do is 2000w, so if you have 2 dedicated 120 circuits it could max around 4000w. Most people run 5500w on the 240 system, this will run on a 30A no issues. As far as times not sure, lots of variables but probably around 30-45 mins would be my guess. Maybe someone who does this can give you better real world times. As far as portability with an electric system, I doubt you will ever do it. I hauled my AG system to someones house once and never again, with electric I think it would be even more of a pita.

 

[jddevinn]

make sure you're on a GFC for the 120V or the 240V. Most people just add an additional 240V at the breaker and a spa panel for the GFC. You're going to be working with the 120V/240V when you build the panel anyway, might as well start with the breaker.

 

[Firewalker11]

with 120 the most you can do is 2000w, so if you have 2 dedicated 120 circuits it could max around 4000w. Most people run 5500w on the 240 system, this will run on a 30A no issues. As far as times not sure, lots of variables but probably around 30-45 mins would be my guess. Maybe someone who does this can give you better real world times. As far as portability with an electric system, I doubt you will ever do it. I hauled my AG system to someones house once and never again, with electric I think it would be even more of a pita.

23A to be exact! That is wide open too, while I run about 75% or 18A max and 10A to maintain a full 10 gallons at boil.

 

[TexasWine]

I brew with 2 x 1500 watt elements on two 15 amp circuits. No need for 20 amp service. And I'm one of the few that will tell you that 240v service isn't necessary for anything 10 gallons and under.

I do 6 gallon batches, BIAB method. Brew days are usually 3 to 3.5 hours, start to finish, weighing, grinding, heating, everything. Heating 8 gallons of water to strike temps takes 20 minutes or so. About 15 minutes to get to a boil. I can fit my entire brew rig (controller, pump, hoses, chiller, bags, etc) all in my kettle with lots of room to spare. Heck, I could even fit the extension cords in there if I wanted to. I can brew anywhere there are two 15 amp circuits, meaning I can be in the garage, kitchen or the local brew club's brew-in. I've got a couple of heavy duty extension cords and two portable GFCI outlet converters, and that's all the equipment I need.

If I wanted to do 10 gallon batches I'd just buy a 15 gallon kettle, keeping two 1500 watt elements, and insulate it with this stuff.... http://www.tempcoat.com/temp-coat-products/temp-coat-101/prod_2.html

120v is definitely cheaper. Most likely you shouldn't need to make any electrical modifications to your home. The only thing I can think of that might be extra is another element for your kettle.

If you've got any questions about 120v brewing feel free to shoot me a line. Happy to answer.

 

[ebj5883]

I brew with 2 x 1500 watt elements on two 15 amp circuits. No need for 20 amp service. And I'm one of the few that will tell you that 240v service isn't necessary for anything 10 gallons and under.

I do 6 gallon batches, BIAB method. Brew days are usually 3 to 3.5 hours, start to finish, weighing, grinding, heating, everything. Heating 8 gallons of water to strike temps takes 20 minutes or so. About 15 minutes to get to a boil. I can fit my entire brew rig (controller, pump, hoses, chiller, bags, etc) all in my kettle with lots of room to spare. Heck, I could even fit the extension cords in there if I wanted to. I can brew anywhere there are two 15 amp circuits, meaning I can be in the garage, kitchen or the local brew club's brew-in. I've got a couple of heavy duty extension cords and two portable GFCI outlet converters, and that's all the equipment I need.

If I wanted to do 10 gallon batches I'd just buy a 15 gallon kettle, keeping two 1500 watt elements, and insulate it with this stuff.... http://www.tempcoat.com/temp-coat-products/temp-coat-101/prod_2.html

120v is definitely cheaper. Most likely you shouldn't need to make any electrical modifications to your home. The only thing I can think of that might be extra is another element for your kettle.

If you've got any questions about 120v brewing feel free to shoot me a line. Happy to answer.

Yeah, 240v is certainly more expensive, given the extra power usage as well as the modifications to my house. I'll take the 120v advice into consideration however, as that grants mobility to me. I did discover some info that a local brew guy offered me.

Supposedly, we need constant circulation for electric brewing? I'm not sure if I misunderstood him, or vice versa, but that seems to make sense in a way. Wort loaded with unfermentables may just burn on contact with the element, such as with a stout. Who knows? Maybe that happens with fermentables as well.

At any rate, confirmation on that would be helpful.

 

[augiedoggy]

Yeah, 240v is certainly more expensive, given the extra power usage as well as the modifications to my house. I'll take the 120v advice into consideration however, as that grants mobility to me. I did discover some info that a local brew guy offered me.

Supposedly, we need constant circulation for electric brewing? I'm not sure if I misunderstood him, or vice versa, but that seems to make sense in a way. Wort loaded with unfermentables may just burn on contact with the element, such as with a stout. Who knows? Maybe that happens with fermentables as well.

At any rate, confirmation on that would be helpful.

This "scorching" is only the case if the element is shut off allowing the sediment to land and settle on the element and then turned back on without stiring it up first. It only happens on heavy beers with a lot of sediment or high gravity . If you use an ULWD element its extremely unlikey to happen even then.

you can use two 5500w elements powered with 120v and get 1375w out of each of them and this would eliminate this chance from happening...

I'm pretty sure brewing with 120v is less efficient and will use more electricity than 240v but I'll let others chime in on that...