Barley_Bob
Well-Known Member
If Ren is off to finish his training with Snoke, then maybe she'll be the main villain of the next film. That would be really great, actually.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars - The Force Awakens / Rogue One
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If Ren is off to finish his training with Snoke, then maybe she'll be the main villain of the next film. That would be really great, actually.
hoppyhoppyhippo
Well-Known Member
Benicio Del Toro will be playing a villain in the next film. My guess is a bounty hunter/jabba type or maybe a general.
I'm thinking Phasma is kind of a secondary villain, more like Finn's villain if you would. The Boba Fett to Han Solo type. Though personally I hope it's more fleshed out than Boba Fett and I certainly hope she gets a more proper death than Fett did.
I'm thinking Phasma is kind of a secondary villain, more like Finn's villain if you would. The Boba Fett to Han Solo type. Though personally I hope it's more fleshed out than Boba Fett and I certainly hope she gets a more proper death than Fett did.
OK, after digesting this (I just saw it yesterday) I have put my finger on a few things that I didn't like. It was an entertaining movie, but I don't think I thought as highly of it as most I've heard discuss it.
1. I hate when the director/writer assumes that the viewer is too dumb to understand context so they have characters say things that are ridiculous so as to spell it out. An example: Snoke says something to Kylo Ren that includes the words "...your father, Han Solo...". Did he really think that Ren did not know that Solo was his father, so he had to specify that he meant Solo by "father"? Do you say to your friend, "...your dad, you know, Tom..."? I think it would have been obvious to the viewer that when Han tells Leia "he was here...our son was here..." and then he has the face off with Ren later on, that Solo is the father. Another example is that we had to hear, at least 3 times, what a great pilot Poe is, including the awkward, misplaced dialog of Fin during the battle (following the fairly preposterous display of piloting abilities by Poe).
2. As others have said, it was too fast. There were no stops, no slow moments that allowed us to understand the characters. It was almost like a shoot 'em up movie. Entertaining because of the action but I don't think the plot or the characters were developed very well.
3. Along the same lines as #2, I felt the characters were forced to evolve way too fast. It was like they wanted us to have the backstory of 15 characters all thrown out and as complete as you would have after a full trilogy. Are we really to believe that Rey went from no knowledge of the force to just figuring out that she could use the Jedi mind trick with no training or teaching? It was like watching the alien in the movie Species evolve over the span of an hour.
4. I thought Carrie Fisher, in general, was horrible, and Harrison Ford only marginally better. I suppose I can cut them a little bit of a break, as their characters were central to the plot, but they could have spent a little less time on them. I also didn't buy into Han reverting back to his smuggling ways after Ren turned to the dark side.
1. I hate when the director/writer assumes that the viewer is too dumb to understand context so they have characters say things that are ridiculous so as to spell it out. An example: Snoke says something to Kylo Ren that includes the words "...your father, Han Solo...". Did he really think that Ren did not know that Solo was his father, so he had to specify that he meant Solo by "father"? Do you say to your friend, "...your dad, you know, Tom..."? I think it would have been obvious to the viewer that when Han tells Leia "he was here...our son was here..." and then he has the face off with Ren later on, that Solo is the father. Another example is that we had to hear, at least 3 times, what a great pilot Poe is, including the awkward, misplaced dialog of Fin during the battle (following the fairly preposterous display of piloting abilities by Poe).
2. As others have said, it was too fast. There were no stops, no slow moments that allowed us to understand the characters. It was almost like a shoot 'em up movie. Entertaining because of the action but I don't think the plot or the characters were developed very well.
3. Along the same lines as #2, I felt the characters were forced to evolve way too fast. It was like they wanted us to have the backstory of 15 characters all thrown out and as complete as you would have after a full trilogy. Are we really to believe that Rey went from no knowledge of the force to just figuring out that she could use the Jedi mind trick with no training or teaching? It was like watching the alien in the movie Species evolve over the span of an hour.
4. I thought Carrie Fisher, in general, was horrible, and Harrison Ford only marginally better. I suppose I can cut them a little bit of a break, as their characters were central to the plot, but they could have spent a little less time on them. I also didn't buy into Han reverting back to his smuggling ways after Ren turned to the dark side.
Here is my take on The Force Awakens:
The set design was great. IT was so nice to see people act on location and in front of physical props rather than in front of a green screen. The lack of CGI was arguably my favorite thing.
I really liked Han Solo and Leia in the film. I think they were believable and good characters. I actually got a little emotional (amazing, I know) when I saw the old characters on screen.
Han carried the movie, dialogue wise to me. I loved his dialogue especially when he was sandwiched between two parties that he screwed over in the past when he was on the cargo ship. Han is a great movie character and I have always liked his sly wit.
I did like Finn, but I liked him more once he and Han shared the screen together. I fear that without Han in the next movie, I won't like Finn as much. Finn and Han were great foil characters.
Everyone in Hollywood should try to hire Mark Hammil's agent. He did not voice a syllable and probably got $15 million for that role. Actually, I think he signed a 3-movie deal, so he'll obviously be more involved in episodes 8 and 9, but from now on whenever someone does the silent treatment, I'll be like, 'He was all Luke.
I COULD NOT STAND the Supreme Being. I think it was horrible. I'm talking Jar Jar level of disgust here. Now, I know it was just a hologram, but just to see some big ugly jobber ogre looking thing and even his name sounds like something a 4th grader came up with. Palpantine is probably my favorite character from the first six movies, so I was severely disappointed with what appears to be his replacement - unless he didn't really die in Jedi and she stuff that shot out of the Death Star was some dark side force and he could reincarnate himself. It's possible because remember in Sith his whole thing was telling Anakin how he could teach Anakin how to save people from dying.
Not a big fan of Ren. I felt she was no different than the protagonists from Divergent or Hunger Games - the strong willed female. She wasn't bad, but I didn't think she was distinct at all. I've seen that character a lot - her name is Catniss.
Ky-Lo was fair at best. I kind of like how he removed his helmet and seemed more 'human but I also thought he was kind of a tool. I did like when he got all passed and started using his light saber to destroy the computer panel. What I didn't like though was his 'death' was just so anti-climatic. He was left in that frozen forest and then the next thing was that planet got destroyed. I remember someone saying they had to go get him, so I can't fathom he's dead, but I thought there was a lack of closure there - probably deliberate, but I didn't like it.
I thought they did a great job making a lot of subtle references to the old movies - like Han referring to the trash compactor and even some individual scenes were very paralleled to the original trilogy.
I loved the 'new cantina' part with all those creatures. Well done.
I also liked how it didn't take itself too seriously - like when Ren uses the Force on the Storm Trooper to make him drop his weapon and he's all like I will drop my weapon. I think it's good that STar Wars can laugh at itself at times.
I did not like how easy it was for the Resistance to blow up the planet. The thing can destroy 5 planets with the press of a button, but Han and Cherie with a few sticky grenades and a handful of X-Wings can go in there and blow it up after they take 5 minutes to make a plan?! Kind of job.
Do you think Ren is Luke's daughter? Obi Wan off-spring? When she had the flashback with Luke's light saber and then they used Luke's theme song when she used it. If so, Luke is a pretty job father, but hey - he didn't have a good father either. The reason I think she COULD be offspring/related to Obi Wan is because Ren used the Jedi Mindtrick just like Obi Wan did in EP. IV with the storm troopers when he said, These aren't the druids you're looking for.
I did like the new Droid a lot more than I thought I would.
I liked Cherie and I liked how they showcased his kick ass cross bow.
The set design was great. IT was so nice to see people act on location and in front of physical props rather than in front of a green screen. The lack of CGI was arguably my favorite thing.
I really liked Han Solo and Leia in the film. I think they were believable and good characters. I actually got a little emotional (amazing, I know) when I saw the old characters on screen.
Han carried the movie, dialogue wise to me. I loved his dialogue especially when he was sandwiched between two parties that he screwed over in the past when he was on the cargo ship. Han is a great movie character and I have always liked his sly wit.
I did like Finn, but I liked him more once he and Han shared the screen together. I fear that without Han in the next movie, I won't like Finn as much. Finn and Han were great foil characters.
Everyone in Hollywood should try to hire Mark Hammil's agent. He did not voice a syllable and probably got $15 million for that role. Actually, I think he signed a 3-movie deal, so he'll obviously be more involved in episodes 8 and 9, but from now on whenever someone does the silent treatment, I'll be like, 'He was all Luke.
I COULD NOT STAND the Supreme Being. I think it was horrible. I'm talking Jar Jar level of disgust here. Now, I know it was just a hologram, but just to see some big ugly jobber ogre looking thing and even his name sounds like something a 4th grader came up with. Palpantine is probably my favorite character from the first six movies, so I was severely disappointed with what appears to be his replacement - unless he didn't really die in Jedi and she stuff that shot out of the Death Star was some dark side force and he could reincarnate himself. It's possible because remember in Sith his whole thing was telling Anakin how he could teach Anakin how to save people from dying.
Not a big fan of Ren. I felt she was no different than the protagonists from Divergent or Hunger Games - the strong willed female. She wasn't bad, but I didn't think she was distinct at all. I've seen that character a lot - her name is Catniss.
Ky-Lo was fair at best. I kind of like how he removed his helmet and seemed more 'human but I also thought he was kind of a tool. I did like when he got all passed and started using his light saber to destroy the computer panel. What I didn't like though was his 'death' was just so anti-climatic. He was left in that frozen forest and then the next thing was that planet got destroyed. I remember someone saying they had to go get him, so I can't fathom he's dead, but I thought there was a lack of closure there - probably deliberate, but I didn't like it.
I thought they did a great job making a lot of subtle references to the old movies - like Han referring to the trash compactor and even some individual scenes were very paralleled to the original trilogy.
I loved the 'new cantina' part with all those creatures. Well done.
I also liked how it didn't take itself too seriously - like when Ren uses the Force on the Storm Trooper to make him drop his weapon and he's all like I will drop my weapon. I think it's good that STar Wars can laugh at itself at times.
I did not like how easy it was for the Resistance to blow up the planet. The thing can destroy 5 planets with the press of a button, but Han and Cherie with a few sticky grenades and a handful of X-Wings can go in there and blow it up after they take 5 minutes to make a plan?! Kind of job.
Do you think Ren is Luke's daughter? Obi Wan off-spring? When she had the flashback with Luke's light saber and then they used Luke's theme song when she used it. If so, Luke is a pretty job father, but hey - he didn't have a good father either. The reason I think she COULD be offspring/related to Obi Wan is because Ren used the Jedi Mindtrick just like Obi Wan did in EP. IV with the storm troopers when he said, These aren't the druids you're looking for.
I did like the new Droid a lot more than I thought I would.
I liked Cherie and I liked how they showcased his kick ass cross bow.
Just one correction...Ren is the "bad guy", not the girl. Rey is the girl.
EDIT: and how could Rey be Obi-wan's offspring? At the time this movie is set, Obi-Wan has been dead some 40 years...
EDIT: and how could Rey be Obi-wan's offspring? At the time this movie is set, Obi-Wan has been dead some 40 years...
Ah, got it. I thought you meant his daughter. But you're suggesting maybe a granddaughter or something.
kombat
Well-Known Member
I disagree, I think they spent adequate time fleshing out the newer characters (Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo Ren), at the expense of those we already knew (Leia, Solo, Chewie). I would have liked to learn more about General Nux and Phasma, but there are 2 more movies coming.
Maybe she has had training and teaching. There's speculation that Luke Skywalker is her father, and she's already had some training, but had her memory wiped for her protection when she was dropped off on Jaakku.
But then again, I was also 100% convinced that The Matrix Revolutions was going to reveal that they'd been living in a second, "Blue" Matrix the whole time.
Fisher was a weak point, for sure, but at least her scenes were quite limited. And I thought Ford was fine. Maybe my standards have just been lowered after 3 movies of horrible Anakin actors.
And maybe mine have been raised too high because I so much wanted this to revert to the awesomeness of the original trilogy. I think I also suffer from the fact that I was so young when the originals came out that my perception of them is skewed towards thinking they are better than they probably really are.
But this was a vast improvement over the prequels, in my opinion. I will give it that.
Harrison Ford had his moments, but I thought he generally was a weak link.
kombat
Well-Known Member
Agreed 100%. I loved that the explosions they were running away from were clearly actual explosions. It didn't look like a video game to me, like the first 3 did.
LOL, that was one of my favorite parts, too.
It seemed very sincere and passionate, and then he paused for a second, and then calmly asked, "Is there anything else?" before getting even worse news.Oh don't worry, he's not dead.
Interesting trivia - the actor who played that storm trooper was none other than Daniel Craig. James Bond himself.
I am a huge Star Wars fan, thought they did a great job on the film, but maybe it is just one too many. There have already been epic space fights (not in TFA), epic light saber battles (not in TFA), great characters, etc. in the previous films. I think the next problem is this "generation" of films is too video-game, too fast-paced, it's like they assume all audiences have ADD. (The plus side of this is that the video game will be incredible). A Hitchcock style storyline, getting deep into the characters, might have been a new path making the new films distinct from the old (filmmakers "back in the day" could make a film intense with great story and acting, not just explosions). The problem is the previous films had "done it all" so what could the next three really outdo them on? I am of course not saying it shouldn't be an action movie, but balance of plot / action would be an improvement. It was certainly n entertaining film (going to see it for a 2nd time today), but lacked depth. Maybe after seeing the storyline again I'll change my view, but overall I agree with those that it was too fast paced and not an adequately profound story.
+1 on the Rey shower scene idea, that would add a new facet to Star Wars.
+1 on the Rey shower scene idea, that would add a new facet to Star Wars.
I think though - at the end of the day - one thing this movie did which is good for all Star Wars fans - was generate discussion. And, it really made me want to see what they'll do next. Remember, nobody knew after IV that Luke and Leia were related or that Vader was Luke's father. They've got a lot of questions to answer, but they've got plenty of time to do it!
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Sad part is, a LOT of the general non-fan public STILL does not know this despite seeing all the previous movies.
I'm with most of you on the pacing. Same story could have used an extra 30 minutes. But I was very pleased with it. Kylo Ren started as a badass, but kind of devolved into a angsty Force-brat. Stopping bolts mid-air to losing saber battle to a noob. I liked Chewie, specifically the humour, but also when Han dropped, Chewie be like "Imma tear sh*t up!"
Highlight for me, specifically - BB8's thumb's up. I'm still laughing.
Highlight for me, specifically - BB8's thumb's up. I'm still laughing.
+1 on the Rey shower scene idea, that would add a new facet to Star Wars.
Although I think she is very hot, I have no real interest in Rey sexually. This very much goes against my normal behaviour.
I thought she did a fantastic job in the role. I didn't find her awesome abilities to be terribly unusual for someone so powerful in the force. Many people with an unusual talent in the Force seem to be quite good at different things, and her upbringing with scavenging only helps her understand mechanics and people.
Ren was pretty good. I thought he was kind of whiney, but when you look back at Luke and Anniken that kind of behaviour tends to run in people of that age, and I think it's part of the process of turning someone to the Dark Side to make them think they can simply take what they want and the world owes them everything.
Looking forward to more character development in the next movie. I think more time will be spent focusing on the relationships between characters just as ESB did with Luke and Yoda.
Trying to find another day to see this one again.
I thought they did a great job of mimicking Anakins decent into the dark side. Now I know he was defeated by Obi much better fighter then Rey/Fn but still he was supposed to be the most powerful and could have easily taken out Obi but let rage and passion cloud his judgement much like Ren.
When the "starkiller" fired at a bunch of planets at once and everyone was watching.... I was just sitting there thinking That's not how light works. Then when they attack the base, and make a huge effort to HL past the shields then pull up fast... I'm thinking why didn't they just kamikaze some fighters into the target? Also why is the "resistance" apparently less armed than the old "rebellion"? Most importantly where was Darth Jar Jar?!?
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
Finally, someone is asking the important questions.
drainbamage
Keep HBT weird.
I was wondering this as well. It has been presumably 30 or so years since the defeat of the Empire and the establishment of the new Republic...and these guys are still hunkered down in hidden bases with a handful of fighters to spare?
I haven't really read any of the Expanded Universe books in probably 15 years, but I know they're obviously branching off from that whole storyline. Is there any media out there that bridges the gap between the original trilogy and TFA?
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq559Vzc5MA[/ame]
By the way, I hate you guys. I've always been a pretty big Star Wars fan, but I've never fallen into complete nerd mode. But now reading all this nonsense, I am finding myself looking at books on Amazon like this:
By the way, I hate you guys. I've always been a pretty big Star Wars fan, but I've never fallen into complete nerd mode. But now reading all this nonsense, I am finding myself looking at books on Amazon like this:
See I told ha he's Snoke. Lol.
I have read so many theories since watching the movie last night that my head is spinning.
I have read that Plagueis tricked Sidius into killing him because he has the ability to transfer his consciousness to a new "host" but the host must be the one who kills him. Sidius then plans to do the same with Anikan, until the incident on Mustafar, he decided that he would go after his son instead. The theory then goes that Sidius/Plagueis entered Darth Vader upon the Emperor's death, and then tricked Luke into taking off his helmet, thereby causing Vader's death and allowing Plagueis to enter Luke's body...and Luke is now Snoke. How's that for a frigging stretch?
WOW. Mind. Blown.
Curious. Because Palpatine wanted Luke to strike him down soooo badly and Luke refused.
I *was* going to call BS on this, but after a moment of thinking I'm not sure it doesn't at least make some sense.
2bluewagons
Well-Known Member
Agree with all of these except Jar Jar, let him rest in peace.
Although I enjoyed the movie, there are so many things that bother me about it. First is this "resistance." Why is a "resistance" necessary when there has been a New Republic established (for like 30 years?) that is naturally tasked to dealing with the remnants of the Empire? Since we saw Ackbar in TFA (wasn't he killed in the books along with his planet being destroyed?), obviously the Mon Calamari are still involved and presumably making Cruisers (big ships from Jedi), so why are we back to a handful of x-wings and a few scrappy freighters again? Oh maybe because the New Republic can be wiped out in just a few minutes so that the plot of the next movies can revert to the "frontier" aspect that some people think was one of the qualities that made the first trilogy better. If the Rebel Alliance can learn of the secret development of the second death star, why can't the New Republic learn of the construction of a friggin 'euge planet killer before it wipes them out? Really poor on the realistic scale here.
The empire apparently also needed a new name in the form of the New Order, no real point to that either.
Definitely would have like to see more development of the jedi academy Luke had started, including its downfall due to Jacen, I mean Kylo Ren. All we got was a holovid similar to that seen in Ep. III when Anakin took out the younglings. Hopefully we'll see some flashbacks when Luke has more of a role in the next two movies. Agree that he has a killer agent (2 personal assistants noted in credits for a non-speaking role), and stylist also. He looked like he could have been a Game of Thrones character!
Probably the worst thing about the plot for me is that WE HAVE SEEN THIS MOVIE ALREADY. Lose a droid on a desert planet, where it is found by a Jedi candidate, who gets involved in an adventure that ends in a visit to the Jungle-world base for the rebelstance and the destruction of a huge planet-killing weapon, and then go ahead and wrap in the beginning of Ep. 5 to send that candidate to a remote planet to seek training from a legendary Jedi Master. Couldn't they have found a way to capture a new generation audience while at the same time giving us older folks something new? During the finale saber battle, I was really hoping for Luke to come swooping in to rescue Rey and deal with Ren in some fashion.
Looking forward to what they do next. Good starting point, but I hope for more originality in the future.
A+
Will watch again. And again. And again.
Will watch again. And again. And again.
Not the Empire. There is no real (official) government or overreaching military control. The First Order is more or less a military coup. I think it's large enough to almost be official, but according to the movie the new weapon was going to be used to get rid of the official government and make way to militarily take over rule.
How about this theory?
Man, I need the year to end so I can get back to doing more work.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesth...k-this-if-you-havent-seen-tfa-yet#.okvLKq1z3O
Man, I need the year to end so I can get back to doing more work.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesth...k-this-if-you-havent-seen-tfa-yet#.okvLKq1z3O
Welp... I guess I'm the only one who thinks the movie stinks. I hated it. It's just not up to Lucas' standards. It seemed to me to be a poor remake of the first Star Wars, including yet another Death Star. Yawn. No character development, no real plot, nothing new.
Leia didn't even cry when Solo died. Really? Weren't they married?
Leia didn't even cry when Solo died. Really? Weren't they married?
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
"not up to Lucas' standards."
Have you even SEEN Episodes I - III?
Part of the reason people love Episode V so much is BECAUSE Lucas didn't direct it.
As I said earlier, I didn't think it was all that good, either. But I am optimistic that is the beginning of something very good.
As for Lucas standards...are you serious? Dude made one good movie and then his ideas spawned some others to make good movies...and him to make some stinkers.
He actually made a few good movies, but only 2 (maybe 3 if you discount the Ewoks) decent Star Wars movies. (IMO)
Have you seen THX1138? Very interesting independent film, IMO. American Graffiti was also pretty decent. He also had a hand in a small film called Indiana Jones. Several of those were pretty good as well, from what I hear.
I don't think a few of the SW movies were "awesome", but I don't discredit his ability to make good movies, just think he hasn't hit the bullseye every time. And from what I've read, his heart wasn't really into the later SW movies, being pressured to sell billions of toys to kids, while he would rather have moved on to some artistic films.
Sorry, I meant my comments to be applied only to things Star Wars. American Graffiti is a GREAT movie.
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
He made ONE good Star Wars movie, and that was arguably because he didn't have complete control over the film. He had other producers and crew there to shoot down some of his stupider ideas. A lot of the more iconic ideas in that film actually came from members of the crew. For V & VI, he didn't even direct the films. He was too busy working on merchandising to be bothered.
Episodes I-III were garbage, and Lucas was given free reign to do whatever he wanted with those. Coincidence? I think not.
He had a hand making Indiana Jones 1-3, but some jerk by the name of "Speilberg" was there to make all the final decisions as director and reign Lucas in.
Then came the garbage heap that was #4, and so many of the stupider ideas in that film can be attributed directly to Lucas (if you watch the behind the scenes interviews, he smugly takes credit for a LOT of what people hated about that movie). Speilberg pretty much said he didn't even want to make the movie, and let Lucas have a lot more input over the production.
THX1138 was a good movie. But I wonder if like episode IV, he had someone there to bounce ideas off of and cull some of his weaker ideas.
drainbamage
Keep HBT weird.
Wasn't the story with Ep. IV that Lucas's wife was the "moderating influence", so to speak?
I forgot the best part of this movie (for me). My 7 year old daughter did not want to go see it and claims that she does not like Star Wars and claims she has never paid attention to any of the movies when they have been playing in the house. We made her go so that the whole family could go.
When they were on the Starkiller Base, and it was snowing, she leaned over to me and said, in her tiny little voice, "are they on Hoth?"
I about lost it.
When they were on the Starkiller Base, and it was snowing, she leaned over to me and said, in her tiny little voice, "are they on Hoth?"
I about lost it.
After reading through this thread, I have to admit that I'm nowhere near well versed in who directed what or what the influences were for the different episodes. I will modify my statement to, "it wasn't up to my expectations".
I went to the theater with my brother and his GF and both of them fell asleep during the movie. It was stupid and boring in my opinion. But it seems that I'm in a minority with that.
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